6 ms·

Their work on Google Fibre is definitely an interesting one and there is a huge opportunity there if they can get navigate their way around the massive players

Their work on Google Fibre is definitely an interesting one and there is a huge opportunity there if they can get navigate their way around the massive players there already. But Google is playing smart by lobbying governments to open up competition. The car opportunity is pretty much non existent for them. All of the top 20 car manufacturers have had projects for years and Volvo, Toyota already have plans to launch in 2014. They may look to someone like Tesla for a partnership but they are niche.

wamatt 14y ago
Interesting that you're appear so dismissive of Google's self driving cars. I'm not claiming you're necessarily wrong, but I am intrigued about the other self driving options and how they surpass Google's solution? It would appear to be a widely held belief, that Google is the pioneer and leader in the field, at least with respect to the software/AI.
- taligent 14y ago
  > It would appear to be a widely held belief Among people who don't know much about the automotive industry. The software/AI is secondary to the ability of the solution to work in hundreds of millions of cars in hundreds of countries (all with varying regulations) under an infinite array of conditions. The car companies have decades of experience at this. Google has none. And even worse they have a penchant for beta software and a concerning inability to ship products properly. So whilst Google's software may be technically better (I don't know) in the grand scheme of things it is a meaningless consideration.
  - yid 14y ago
    Sigh. Stop rationalizing your pet Google peeves. > The software/AI is secondary to the ability of the solution to work in hundreds of millions of cars in hundreds of countries (all with varying regulations) under an infinite array of conditions. No it doesn't. It's perfectly fine if it works even with one car model if that spurs demand and further development. It's perfectly fine if the self-driving system initially only works in "good" conditions, since a driver should always be prepared to take over. It's perfectly fine if the system detects ice or snow and sets off a shit-ton of alarms warning the driver to take over. No initial offering of a brand new technology ever deals with every imaginable scenario. > The car companies have decades of experience at this. The car companies have decades of experience designing mechanical and electromechanical systems. Their software expertise sucks. Other than the Tesla, have you seen the dismal state of modern car software? Even BMW uses a system of rotary dials, and "apps" are just now becoming commonplace. Robust self-driving cars involve an unimaginable amount of software complexity. There are machine vision algorithms, sensor fusion algorithms, estimation and planning algorithms, learning algorithms, and probably a bevy of common-sense heuristics. There needs to be extensive testing of these algorithms, and careful bounds on their latency and reliability. These are computer science problems, not automotive problems. > Google has none. Google has cash. They can acquire people and expertise. See [1] > And even worse they have a penchant for beta software and a concerning inability to ship products properly. May I be bold enough to presume that the vast array of smart people they've hired might have realized that Gmail and self-driving cars require different approaches to software development.... [1] http://www.wired.com/autopia/2012/11/ron-medford-google-nhtsa/ http://www.wired.com/autopia/2012/11/ron-medford-google-nhts...
    - notdrunkatall 14y ago
      Quite right. Just like TSLA is going to beat the big car companies at electric cars, so too will GOOG beat them at self-driving ones. The electro-mechanical and mechanical aspect of a self-driving car is the easy part; it is the software that will be where the real innovation occurs, and Google has arguably more software expertise than any other organization on the planet, and much, much more than any car company. If anyone can win that race, it's Google.
      - taligent 14y ago
        That's hilarious because Tesla doesn't exist outside the US where as today electric cars can be purchased via GMs Volt program e.g GM Volt, Holden Volt, Opel Ampera. Likewise when BMW releases their electric car it will overnight be available in countless countries through their vast dealerships and partnerships. You are being naive if you think that technology alone is all you need in business.
        executive 14y ago
        Tesla store in Toronto http://photos.newswire.ca/images/download/20121116_C8623_PHOTO_EN_20801.jpg http://photos.newswire.ca/images/download/20121116_C8623_PHO...
        notdrunkatall 14y ago
        And you are being obtuse if you think that technology and reputation doesn't greatly impact sales.
- ibrahima 14y ago
  > It would appear to be a widely held belief, that Google is the pioneer and leader in the field, at least with respect to the software/AI. To be precise, they swooped up the leaders in the field from the DARPA challenges, but same difference I suppose.
bmuon 14y ago
All of the top 20 car manufacturers have had projects for years and Volvo, Toyota already have plans to launch in 2014 That's interesting. I haven't read anything like it. Do you have a source?
- taligent 14y ago
  Honestly there are so many sources its not funny. Toyota/Audi at CES: http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/145035-toyota-audi-showcase-self-driving-cars-at-ces-no-sign-of-google http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/145035-toyota-audi-showca... Volvo shipping in 2014: http://www.engadget.com/2012/12/03/volvo-self-driving-cars-2014/ http://www.engadget.com/2012/12/03/volvo-self-driving-cars-2... State of autonomous cars: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_car http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_car And remember that the automative industry routinely share technologies within each group. So for example Audi technology may appear in all VW group brands e.g. Bentley, Porsche, SEAT, VW. Extrapolate across all the groups and Google's market opportunity evaporates pretty quickly.
  - BitMastro 14y ago
    And once again YOU are so wrong it's not even funny. The sources you cite refer to a range of sensors that will be added to cars starting from 2014, like collision detection technologies. And the Volvo cars you always talk about are supposed to be in a train formation following a human-driven vehicle. A different kind of project from the self-driving cars from Google. Actual self-driving cars by other companies are always research projects with unclear timescales. Your need to despise something just because it's made by Google make you look pathetic. Just stop.
nyrulez 14y ago
Bitter much ? Can you point me to some data for your claims and their accuracy records ? So far I have not heard of any real world testing (> 100,000 miles), with an impeccable safety record. Maybe there is and I am just missing it. Maybe you underestimate the technical hardness of the problem and what world class big data and machine learning can do for such a problem with an enormous number of scenarios. This is like going back in time and saying book opportunity is pretty much non-existent for Amazon. B&N and Borders know how to do books, have amazing distribution around the country and they are working on their online book stores anyway (which is not even technically hard to do)
- taligent 14y ago
  State of autonomous cars: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_car http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_car And I might forward you to Formula 1 racing which is one of the most technologically sophisticated activities on the planet. The car companies involved e.g. Ferrari, Mercedes, McLaren are constantly dealing with big data, machine learning and real time simulations. http://storagemojo.com/2012/11/02/big-data-in-formula-1-racing/ http://storagemojo.com/2012/11/02/big-data-in-formula-1-raci... The idea that nobody can handle IT apart from web companies is a bit silly.
  - BitMastro 14y ago
    The sources you cite refer to a range of sensors that will be added to cars starting from 2014, like collision detection technologies. And the Volvo cars you always talk about are supposed to be in a train formation following a human-driven vehicle. A different kind of project from the self-driving cars from Google. Actual self-driving cars by other companies are always research projects with unclear timescales.

wamatt 14y ago

Interesting that you're appear so dismissive of Google's self driving cars. I'm not claiming you're necessarily wrong, but I am intrigued about the other self driving options and how they surpass Google's solution? It would appear to be a widely held belief, that Google is the pioneer and leader in the field, at least with respect to the software/AI.

taligent 14y ago
> It would appear to be a widely held belief Among people who don't know much about the automotive industry. The software/AI is secondary to the ability of the solution to work in hundreds of millions of cars in hundreds of countries (all with varying regulations) under an infinite array of conditions. The car companies have decades of experience at this. Google has none. And even worse they have a penchant for beta software and a concerning inability to ship products properly. So whilst Google's software may be technically better (I don't know) in the grand scheme of things it is a meaningless consideration.
- yid 14y ago
  Sigh. Stop rationalizing your pet Google peeves. > The software/AI is secondary to the ability of the solution to work in hundreds of millions of cars in hundreds of countries (all with varying regulations) under an infinite array of conditions. No it doesn't. It's perfectly fine if it works even with one car model if that spurs demand and further development. It's perfectly fine if the self-driving system initially only works in "good" conditions, since a driver should always be prepared to take over. It's perfectly fine if the system detects ice or snow and sets off a shit-ton of alarms warning the driver to take over. No initial offering of a brand new technology ever deals with every imaginable scenario. > The car companies have decades of experience at this. The car companies have decades of experience designing mechanical and electromechanical systems. Their software expertise sucks. Other than the Tesla, have you seen the dismal state of modern car software? Even BMW uses a system of rotary dials, and "apps" are just now becoming commonplace. Robust self-driving cars involve an unimaginable amount of software complexity. There are machine vision algorithms, sensor fusion algorithms, estimation and planning algorithms, learning algorithms, and probably a bevy of common-sense heuristics. There needs to be extensive testing of these algorithms, and careful bounds on their latency and reliability. These are computer science problems, not automotive problems. > Google has none. Google has cash. They can acquire people and expertise. See [1] > And even worse they have a penchant for beta software and a concerning inability to ship products properly. May I be bold enough to presume that the vast array of smart people they've hired might have realized that Gmail and self-driving cars require different approaches to software development.... [1] http://www.wired.com/autopia/2012/11/ron-medford-google-nhtsa/ http://www.wired.com/autopia/2012/11/ron-medford-google-nhts...
  - notdrunkatall 14y ago
    Quite right. Just like TSLA is going to beat the big car companies at electric cars, so too will GOOG beat them at self-driving ones. The electro-mechanical and mechanical aspect of a self-driving car is the easy part; it is the software that will be where the real innovation occurs, and Google has arguably more software expertise than any other organization on the planet, and much, much more than any car company. If anyone can win that race, it's Google.
    - taligent 14y ago
      That's hilarious because Tesla doesn't exist outside the US where as today electric cars can be purchased via GMs Volt program e.g GM Volt, Holden Volt, Opel Ampera. Likewise when BMW releases their electric car it will overnight be available in countless countries through their vast dealerships and partnerships. You are being naive if you think that technology alone is all you need in business.
      - executive 14y ago
        Tesla store in Toronto http://photos.newswire.ca/images/download/20121116_C8623_PHOTO_EN_20801.jpg http://photos.newswire.ca/images/download/20121116_C8623_PHO...
      - notdrunkatall 14y ago
        And you are being obtuse if you think that technology and reputation doesn't greatly impact sales.
ibrahima 14y ago
> It would appear to be a widely held belief, that Google is the pioneer and leader in the field, at least with respect to the software/AI. To be precise, they swooped up the leaders in the field from the DARPA challenges, but same difference I suppose.

bmuon 14y ago

All of the top 20 car manufacturers have had projects for years and Volvo, Toyota already have plans to launch in 2014 That's interesting. I haven't read anything like it. Do you have a source?

taligent 14y ago
Honestly there are so many sources its not funny. Toyota/Audi at CES: http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/145035-toyota-audi-showcase-self-driving-cars-at-ces-no-sign-of-google http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/145035-toyota-audi-showca... Volvo shipping in 2014: http://www.engadget.com/2012/12/03/volvo-self-driving-cars-2014/ http://www.engadget.com/2012/12/03/volvo-self-driving-cars-2... State of autonomous cars: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_car http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_car And remember that the automative industry routinely share technologies within each group. So for example Audi technology may appear in all VW group brands e.g. Bentley, Porsche, SEAT, VW. Extrapolate across all the groups and Google's market opportunity evaporates pretty quickly.
- BitMastro 14y ago
  And once again YOU are so wrong it's not even funny. The sources you cite refer to a range of sensors that will be added to cars starting from 2014, like collision detection technologies. And the Volvo cars you always talk about are supposed to be in a train formation following a human-driven vehicle. A different kind of project from the self-driving cars from Google. Actual self-driving cars by other companies are always research projects with unclear timescales. Your need to despise something just because it's made by Google make you look pathetic. Just stop.

nyrulez 14y ago

Bitter much ? Can you point me to some data for your claims and their accuracy records ? So far I have not heard of any real world testing (> 100,000 miles), with an impeccable safety record. Maybe there is and I am just missing it. Maybe you underestimate the technical hardness of the problem and what world class big data and machine learning can do for such a problem with an enormous number of scenarios. This is like going back in time and saying book opportunity is pretty much non-existent for Amazon. B&N and Borders know how to do books, have amazing distribution around the country and they are working on their online book stores anyway (which is not even technically hard to do)

taligent 14y ago
State of autonomous cars: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_car http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_car And I might forward you to Formula 1 racing which is one of the most technologically sophisticated activities on the planet. The car companies involved e.g. Ferrari, Mercedes, McLaren are constantly dealing with big data, machine learning and real time simulations. http://storagemojo.com/2012/11/02/big-data-in-formula-1-racing/ http://storagemojo.com/2012/11/02/big-data-in-formula-1-raci... The idea that nobody can handle IT apart from web companies is a bit silly.
- BitMastro 14y ago
  The sources you cite refer to a range of sensors that will be added to cars starting from 2014, like collision detection technologies. And the Volvo cars you always talk about are supposed to be in a train formation following a human-driven vehicle. A different kind of project from the self-driving cars from Google. Actual self-driving cars by other companies are always research projects with unclear timescales.