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Do you really believe that if all guns disappeared tomorow, those who want to kill themselves would not find another way? Because thats what most "gun related

by nirvana 14y ago

Do you really believe that if all guns disappeared tomorow, those who want to kill themselves would not find another way? Because thats what most "gun related deaths" are-- suicides. But it pads the statistics to make people who aren't paying close attention more fearful to talk about "gun related deaths" than "murders with guns", and it also helps avoid the fact that the murder rate in countries where guns have been banned is much higher-- even if they have to use knives to do it. (how often have you seen the murder rate in Britain brought up vs. the number of "gun related deaths" brought up there in this debate?)

mfringel 14y ago
''Do you really believe that if all guns disappeared tomorow, those who want to kill themselves would not find another way?'' Strawman. "Banning all the guns" was never mentioned or advocated. Please rephrase.
DanBC 14y ago
> Do you really believe that if all guns disappeared tomorow, those who want to kill themselves would not find another way? Yes, most people who would complete suicide by gun would not do so without a gun.
- aidenn0 14y ago
  They would use trains: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_in_Japan#Suicide http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_in_Japan#Suicide
  - DanBC 14y ago
    No. Small changes to availability of a method of suicide can have big affects. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21370910 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21370910)
    - jack-r-abbit 14y ago
      That one study only tells us that smaller paracetamol package size may have resulted in fewer paracetamol OD suicides. It says nothing about the impact it had on other methods of suicide. Or how the decline of that specific method of suicide compared to the number of suicides by other methods. If other methods of suicide also declined during that same period, one could reasonably conclude that suicide was on the decline anyway and would have declined even without changing paracetamol package size (perhaps because the economy improved or unemployment declined or any number of things that can lead more people to depression and suicide). However, if other methods of suicide increased during that same period, one could reasonably conclude that people simply found another suicide method "easier" than paracetamol OD. I don't know either way... but that article certainly leaves a lot of other factors unchecked.
      - DanBC 14y ago
        The Oxford studies are pretty clear that people tend to chose one method, and a small delay in that method prevents them from completing suicide. People tend not to use anything available to kill themselves. Most houses have many things which could cause certain death, but people tend to stick to a certain method.
        aidenn0 14y ago
        I absolutely agree that suicides would decline for a period of time, since guns are the first thought for most men considering suicide. However, once it is no longer the primary way of suicide, something else would replace it. In Japan, the first thought for most men is not a gun, but a train.

by nirvana 14y ago

mfringel 14y ago

''Do you really believe that if all guns disappeared tomorow, those who want to kill themselves would not find another way?'' Strawman. "Banning all the guns" was never mentioned or advocated. Please rephrase.

DanBC 14y ago

> Do you really believe that if all guns disappeared tomorow, those who want to kill themselves would not find another way? Yes, most people who would complete suicide by gun would not do so without a gun.

aidenn0 14y ago
They would use trains: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_in_Japan#Suicide http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_in_Japan#Suicide
- DanBC 14y ago
  No. Small changes to availability of a method of suicide can have big affects. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21370910 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21370910)
  - jack-r-abbit 14y ago
    That one study only tells us that smaller paracetamol package size may have resulted in fewer paracetamol OD suicides. It says nothing about the impact it had on other methods of suicide. Or how the decline of that specific method of suicide compared to the number of suicides by other methods. If other methods of suicide also declined during that same period, one could reasonably conclude that suicide was on the decline anyway and would have declined even without changing paracetamol package size (perhaps because the economy improved or unemployment declined or any number of things that can lead more people to depression and suicide). However, if other methods of suicide increased during that same period, one could reasonably conclude that people simply found another suicide method "easier" than paracetamol OD. I don't know either way... but that article certainly leaves a lot of other factors unchecked.
    - DanBC 14y ago
      The Oxford studies are pretty clear that people tend to chose one method, and a small delay in that method prevents them from completing suicide. People tend not to use anything available to kill themselves. Most houses have many things which could cause certain death, but people tend to stick to a certain method.
      - aidenn0 14y ago
        I absolutely agree that suicides would decline for a period of time, since guns are the first thought for most men considering suicide. However, once it is no longer the primary way of suicide, something else would replace it. In Japan, the first thought for most men is not a gun, but a train.