9 ms·

And this is how 3D printing becomes regulated out of existence.

rdl 14y ago
I think once 3D printing gets good, there will be a lot of things more "legally interesting" than guns to cause regulatory issues.
- Nrsolis 14y ago
  You don't need 3D printing to make usable firearms parts. Example: http://aresarmor.com/ http://aresarmor.com/ Go head and read some of the info on this company, which is selling parts that are unfinished components of an AR-15 rifle. Essentially, they sell you an almost complete lower receiver (the part the ATF considers to be the "gun"), and you use some supplied jigs and a drill press to finish the job. Presto: untraceable, unserialized rifle unencumbered by federal rules on firearms regulated by interstate commerce. Remember prohibition? They used to sell "grape juice concentrate" that could be mixed with water, stored in a jug for an appropriate period of time, and presto: wine. All you need is a reasonably substantial proportion of the population willing to conspire with each other to avoid/subvert/ignore the law and you've got status quo. IMHO, restricting access to firearms will have a measurable, but ultimately negligible effect on death by firearms in the US.
  - rdl 14y ago
    The one part of a firearms system which can't be relatively easily made by an individual in a decentralized way is primer (it's super sensitive and also toxic chemicals). Propellant/powder is also difficult to make cheaply and well. It's not really an issue as long as some firearms (and thus some ammunition) is relatively unregulated; you could easily have a world where only single-shot hunting weapons are available, then use the ammunition from those (either intact or by disassembling and reloading) for other weapons. Still, I aspire to owning an ammunition company; I wish ATK were for sale.
    - slurgfest 14y ago
      You say that everything but primer could be relatively easily made by an individual in a decentralized way. Do you mean a skilled machinist with excellent tools? I would have imagined that making a reliable reusable weapon required a number of small parts with rigid tolerances. Is that not the case?
      - jlujan 14y ago
        The barrel is probably the only part that has "rigid tolerances". The AK is famous for a stamped receiver with minimal machining. http://ultimak.com/AKReceiverID.htm http://ultimak.com/AKReceiverID.htm
        rdl 14y ago
        While barrels benefit from quality (and even things like titanium firing pins, $200 special wooden grips, $3000 optics, etc.), I am confident I could show a minimally literate 8th grader how to make a serviceable open-bolt fully automatic weapon (say a 9mm SMG I guess) with a random high school machine shop in 3 days, capable of firing <4 MOA, >900fps muzzle velocity, >95% reliability with Wolf 9mm ammunition for 500 rounds. Basically the same thing was done in WW2.
      - knowaveragejoe 14y ago
        I think you are correct and your point serves to de-sensationalize the 3D printed gun hysteria. Until 3D printers capable of printing firearms-grade metal, they aren't actually making it easier to for the vast majority of people to acquire firearms who would otherwise have to go through the regulated process. Of course, the entirety of the hysteria is based on the flawed logic that if everyone suddenly has easier(subjective) access to firearms, then everyone will start killing each other.
    - Nrsolis 14y ago
      Right now, the sale of ammunition isn't regulated in the same way that firearms are. The reason people are looking at ways to "print" banned firearms parts is because they aren't available or are restricted in some fashion.
- knowaveragejoe 14y ago
  Indeed. Even within the weapon space, there are so many other things you could print besides firearm components that could aid in death/destruction.

rdl 14y ago

I think once 3D printing gets good, there will be a lot of things more "legally interesting" than guns to cause regulatory issues.

Nrsolis 14y ago
You don't need 3D printing to make usable firearms parts. Example: http://aresarmor.com/ http://aresarmor.com/ Go head and read some of the info on this company, which is selling parts that are unfinished components of an AR-15 rifle. Essentially, they sell you an almost complete lower receiver (the part the ATF considers to be the "gun"), and you use some supplied jigs and a drill press to finish the job. Presto: untraceable, unserialized rifle unencumbered by federal rules on firearms regulated by interstate commerce. Remember prohibition? They used to sell "grape juice concentrate" that could be mixed with water, stored in a jug for an appropriate period of time, and presto: wine. All you need is a reasonably substantial proportion of the population willing to conspire with each other to avoid/subvert/ignore the law and you've got status quo. IMHO, restricting access to firearms will have a measurable, but ultimately negligible effect on death by firearms in the US.
- rdl 14y ago
  The one part of a firearms system which can't be relatively easily made by an individual in a decentralized way is primer (it's super sensitive and also toxic chemicals). Propellant/powder is also difficult to make cheaply and well. It's not really an issue as long as some firearms (and thus some ammunition) is relatively unregulated; you could easily have a world where only single-shot hunting weapons are available, then use the ammunition from those (either intact or by disassembling and reloading) for other weapons. Still, I aspire to owning an ammunition company; I wish ATK were for sale.
  - slurgfest 14y ago
    You say that everything but primer could be relatively easily made by an individual in a decentralized way. Do you mean a skilled machinist with excellent tools? I would have imagined that making a reliable reusable weapon required a number of small parts with rigid tolerances. Is that not the case?
    - jlujan 14y ago
      The barrel is probably the only part that has "rigid tolerances". The AK is famous for a stamped receiver with minimal machining. http://ultimak.com/AKReceiverID.htm http://ultimak.com/AKReceiverID.htm
      - rdl 14y ago
        While barrels benefit from quality (and even things like titanium firing pins, $200 special wooden grips, $3000 optics, etc.), I am confident I could show a minimally literate 8th grader how to make a serviceable open-bolt fully automatic weapon (say a 9mm SMG I guess) with a random high school machine shop in 3 days, capable of firing <4 MOA, >900fps muzzle velocity, >95% reliability with Wolf 9mm ammunition for 500 rounds. Basically the same thing was done in WW2.
    - knowaveragejoe 14y ago
      I think you are correct and your point serves to de-sensationalize the 3D printed gun hysteria. Until 3D printers capable of printing firearms-grade metal, they aren't actually making it easier to for the vast majority of people to acquire firearms who would otherwise have to go through the regulated process. Of course, the entirety of the hysteria is based on the flawed logic that if everyone suddenly has easier(subjective) access to firearms, then everyone will start killing each other.
  - Nrsolis 14y ago
    Right now, the sale of ammunition isn't regulated in the same way that firearms are. The reason people are looking at ways to "print" banned firearms parts is because they aren't available or are restricted in some fashion.
knowaveragejoe 14y ago
Indeed. Even within the weapon space, there are so many other things you could print besides firearm components that could aid in death/destruction.