4 ms·

Wasn't at all surprising to me. Have they never heard of Warhammer 40,000?

by bsphil 14y ago

wmeredith 14y ago
This got quite a lot of discussion or reddit the other day and someone supplied a link to term used in fiction from the 30's. it predates this company by about 50 years.
- sigzero 14y ago
  I think the Starblazer's cartoon had Space Marines and I think Robotech did as well.
- Symmetry 14y ago
  There's no reason to expect that the people currently employed at Games Workshop know that the company had borrowed the term in the first place.
  - masklinn 14y ago
    That is unlikely. What is more likely — as there is significant historical evidence of it — is that GW has a legal department entirely run and staffed by the closest equivalent to ghouls we have.
  - incision 14y ago
    >There's no reason to expect that the people currently employed at Games Workshop know that the company had borrowed the term in the first place. You say that like sticking two generic words next to each other is somehow novel or noteworthy. I wouldn't call it borrowing or infringing when the thing in question is utterly mundane.
- wmeredith 14y ago
  Well, apparently prior art has nothing to do with trademark. So, to paraphrase The Big Lebowski, they're not wrong, they're just assholes.
  - cygx 14y ago
    The problem is not prior art, but the descriptive or generic nature of the term. Just because there's a software company selling music or even a music label with trademarks on 'Apple' doesn't mean I cannot call a song about apples 'Apple Song'. See the case cited in section b of [1] as to why 'space marine' might not be the best choice if you want to put a trademark on a book's title. 'Prior art' is helpful insofar as it establishes the nature of the term in question. The term 'space marine' is not as widely used as I initially believed (eg it's neither used in Starship Troopers nor Aliens, and might not be in Starcraft - did not verify with the game itself and online sources are ambiguous). However, it can still be found in a lot of places: Misfit by Heinlein, Grayson Space Marine Corps in David Weber's Honorverse, Doomguy and the Quake marines, the Star Blazers TV series, Death of the Daleks, the movie 'Space Marines' from 1997, Colonel Scott of the US Space Marines from Moonraker, to name the ones I could come up with. [1] http://www.copylaw.com/new_articles/titles.html http://www.copylaw.com/new_articles/titles.html
    - cygx 14y ago
      Death of the Daleks actually features the 'Marine Space Corps' and not the 'Space Marine Corps' according to Wikipedia, my bad ;)
    - wisty 14y ago
      Using the term inside a work might be less dangerous than using it in the title. IANAL, but GW might be able to argue that using it in a title is going to trick consumers into think it is an officially sanctioned GW book.
      - cygx 14y ago
        Look at the link I gave: """ Noting the inherent weakness of plaintiff's title, the court commented that the words chosen by Random House [the defendant] were an apt description of its book, and therefore in the public domain. Rejecting plaintiff's unfair competition claim, the court further noted that because of the weakness of plaintiff's title, combined with the differences in the overall look and feel of the two books (including Random House's prominent use of its distinctive logo on the spine and back jacket) there was no likelihood of confusion. McGraw-Hill Book Company v. Random House, Inc., 32 Misc. 2nd 704, 225 N.Y.S.2d 646, 132 U.S.P.Q. 530 (1962). """
- yareally 14y ago
  Didn't they refer to characters in the Aliens films as Space Marines? The movies predate the game genre I believe. Obviously the 1930s has both trumped.
  - chops 14y ago
    In Aliens, they were officially called "Colonial Marines"
    - yareally 14y ago
      Thanks for the clarification. I haven't seen the trilogy in a while and couldn't recall for sure. I did a quick search online and saw references that said "space marine" and also "colonial marine" so I figured it might have referenced in the movie.
rrreese 14y ago
I play a lot of computer games and have heard of Warhammer 40,000. I have never heard the phrase "Space Marine" in relation to Warhammer though. No doubt if you play the game it's impossible not to, but expecting people to be familiar with Warhammer AND know that they use Space Marine seems folly. Especially since it sounds pretty generic. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_marine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_marine
mkr-hn 14y ago
I've heard of it, but knew nothing about it. There's a long list of space marines in fiction I would have pointed out before someone pointed out that this franchise also has them.
darkarmani 14y ago
> Wasn't at all surprising to me. Have they never heard of Warhammer 40,000? Was that before or after 1959 when Starship Troopers came out?
- xsmasher 14y ago
  Amazon "search this book" says "0 results for space marine" and "0 result for space marines." Starship Troopers is about "Mobile Infantry." This is about the term "Space Marine" not the concept of marines in space.

Wasn't at all surprising to me. Have they never heard of Warhammer 40,000?

by bsphil 14y ago

Wasn't at all surprising to me. Have they never heard of Warhammer 40,000?

This got quite a lot of discussion or reddit the other day and someone supplied a link to term used in fiction from the 30's. it predates this company by about 50 years.

sigzero 14y ago
I think the Starblazer's cartoon had Space Marines and I think Robotech did as well.
Symmetry 14y ago
There's no reason to expect that the people currently employed at Games Workshop know that the company had borrowed the term in the first place.
- masklinn 14y ago
  That is unlikely. What is more likely — as there is significant historical evidence of it — is that GW has a legal department entirely run and staffed by the closest equivalent to ghouls we have.
- incision 14y ago
  >There's no reason to expect that the people currently employed at Games Workshop know that the company had borrowed the term in the first place. You say that like sticking two generic words next to each other is somehow novel or noteworthy. I wouldn't call it borrowing or infringing when the thing in question is utterly mundane.
wmeredith 14y ago
Well, apparently prior art has nothing to do with trademark. So, to paraphrase The Big Lebowski, they're not wrong, they're just assholes.
- cygx 14y ago
  The problem is not prior art, but the descriptive or generic nature of the term. Just because there's a software company selling music or even a music label with trademarks on 'Apple' doesn't mean I cannot call a song about apples 'Apple Song'. See the case cited in section b of [1] as to why 'space marine' might not be the best choice if you want to put a trademark on a book's title. 'Prior art' is helpful insofar as it establishes the nature of the term in question. The term 'space marine' is not as widely used as I initially believed (eg it's neither used in Starship Troopers nor Aliens, and might not be in Starcraft - did not verify with the game itself and online sources are ambiguous). However, it can still be found in a lot of places: Misfit by Heinlein, Grayson Space Marine Corps in David Weber's Honorverse, Doomguy and the Quake marines, the Star Blazers TV series, Death of the Daleks, the movie 'Space Marines' from 1997, Colonel Scott of the US Space Marines from Moonraker, to name the ones I could come up with. [1] http://www.copylaw.com/new_articles/titles.html http://www.copylaw.com/new_articles/titles.html
  - cygx 14y ago
    Death of the Daleks actually features the 'Marine Space Corps' and not the 'Space Marine Corps' according to Wikipedia, my bad ;)
  - wisty 14y ago
    Using the term inside a work might be less dangerous than using it in the title. IANAL, but GW might be able to argue that using it in a title is going to trick consumers into think it is an officially sanctioned GW book.
    - cygx 14y ago
      Look at the link I gave: """ Noting the inherent weakness of plaintiff's title, the court commented that the words chosen by Random House [the defendant] were an apt description of its book, and therefore in the public domain. Rejecting plaintiff's unfair competition claim, the court further noted that because of the weakness of plaintiff's title, combined with the differences in the overall look and feel of the two books (including Random House's prominent use of its distinctive logo on the spine and back jacket) there was no likelihood of confusion. McGraw-Hill Book Company v. Random House, Inc., 32 Misc. 2nd 704, 225 N.Y.S.2d 646, 132 U.S.P.Q. 530 (1962). """
yareally 14y ago
Didn't they refer to characters in the Aliens films as Space Marines? The movies predate the game genre I believe. Obviously the 1930s has both trumped.
- chops 14y ago
  In Aliens, they were officially called "Colonial Marines"
  - yareally 14y ago
    Thanks for the clarification. I haven't seen the trilogy in a while and couldn't recall for sure. I did a quick search online and saw references that said "space marine" and also "colonial marine" so I figured it might have referenced in the movie.

rrreese 14y ago

I play a lot of computer games and have heard of Warhammer 40,000. I have never heard the phrase "Space Marine" in relation to Warhammer though. No doubt if you play the game it's impossible not to, but expecting people to be familiar with Warhammer AND know that they use Space Marine seems folly. Especially since it sounds pretty generic. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_marine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_marine

mkr-hn 14y ago

I've heard of it, but knew nothing about it. There's a long list of space marines in fiction I would have pointed out before someone pointed out that this franchise also has them.

darkarmani 14y ago

> Wasn't at all surprising to me. Have they never heard of Warhammer 40,000? Was that before or after 1959 when Starship Troopers came out?

xsmasher 14y ago
Amazon "search this book" says "0 results for space marine" and "0 result for space marines." Starship Troopers is about "Mobile Infantry." This is about the term "Space Marine" not the concept of marines in space.