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Why should a user know about a sites business model? To an average joe you letting me sign up and do stuff is all I know. While "giving a week" isn't a rule, it

by geoffw8 14y ago

Why should a user know about a sites business model? To an average joe you letting me sign up and do stuff is all I know. While "giving a week" isn't a rule, it sure sounds like it might be the nicer thing to do. You spout your answer like its the obvious and "derrr" response, but in all reality its not the users responsibility to provide longevity. And lets face it, we (startups) would be totally f'd if users didn't become entirely dependent on our services early doors, perhaps even pre-biz model.

deleted 14y ago
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- untog 14y ago
  But I think what Geoff said about what startups want is very interesting, and true. We persuade users to depend on us because we need it for success. To then turn around as a community and say "ha, why did you do that, idiot?" seems disingenuous to me.
  - gwillen 14y ago
    'Turning around' implies it's the same group of users doing both. I, for one, have never persuaded a user to depend on a startup; I am squarely on the side of advising users never to depend on anything without a well-understood business plan, EVER.
brk 14y ago
You spout your answer like its the obvious and "derrr" response You make a good point, and I did not mean that as the "obvious" response, I meant it as a simple counter-response. As I kind of mentioned in my other comment, I think there can be many cases where the startup that is shutting down is going to be unable to afford a graceful wind-down, for various reasons. Startups and Users are basically at-will employers and employees in a sense. Either can leave the other unexpectedly at any time, and I think it would be wise to approach things with the understanding that neither should expect the other to "just be there".
anon1385 14y ago
>And lets face it, we (startups) would be totally f'd if users didn't become entirely dependent on our services early doors, perhaps even pre-biz model. I (and many other people) try to educate users not to do this. It's an uphill battle, most people are not interested until the day they lose a bunch of their data when some startup webapp they uses has burned through all their cash and closes down. This is becoming increasingly common though, so I think people are starting to realise that they can't trust cloud services/web apps. I'd like to think raising awareness will help end the trend towards centralised computing that denies users control of their data, but most people still don't even back up their local files, so… These kinds of shutdowns are useful examples for the next time I'm having this discussion with somebody. Although I'd rather a bunch of people didn't have to lose data I feel nothing will change until this happens a quite a few more times with bigger sites. Which is to say, I'm afraid I hope you are "totally f'd" because web startups are a malign force when it comes to data security. It's nothing personal…

by geoffw8 14y ago

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

untog 14y ago
But I think what Geoff said about what startups want is very interesting, and true. We persuade users to depend on us because we need it for success. To then turn around as a community and say "ha, why did you do that, idiot?" seems disingenuous to me.
- gwillen 14y ago
  'Turning around' implies it's the same group of users doing both. I, for one, have never persuaded a user to depend on a startup; I am squarely on the side of advising users never to depend on anything without a well-understood business plan, EVER.

brk 14y ago

You spout your answer like its the obvious and "derrr" response You make a good point, and I did not mean that as the "obvious" response, I meant it as a simple counter-response. As I kind of mentioned in my other comment, I think there can be many cases where the startup that is shutting down is going to be unable to afford a graceful wind-down, for various reasons. Startups and Users are basically at-will employers and employees in a sense. Either can leave the other unexpectedly at any time, and I think it would be wise to approach things with the understanding that neither should expect the other to "just be there".

anon1385 14y ago

>And lets face it, we (startups) would be totally f'd if users didn't become entirely dependent on our services early doors, perhaps even pre-biz model. I (and many other people) try to educate users not to do this. It's an uphill battle, most people are not interested until the day they lose a bunch of their data when some startup webapp they uses has burned through all their cash and closes down. This is becoming increasingly common though, so I think people are starting to realise that they can't trust cloud services/web apps. I'd like to think raising awareness will help end the trend towards centralised computing that denies users control of their data, but most people still don't even back up their local files, so… These kinds of shutdowns are useful examples for the next time I'm having this discussion with somebody. Although I'd rather a bunch of people didn't have to lose data I feel nothing will change until this happens a quite a few more times with bigger sites. Which is to say, I'm afraid I hope you are "totally f'd" because web startups are a malign force when it comes to data security. It's nothing personal…