9 ms·

Is getting rich worth it?

168 points by jesseddy 14y ago

drewmck 14y ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill "The hedonic treadmill, also known as hedonic adaptation, is the supposed tendency of humans to quickly return to a relatively stable level of happiness despite major positive or negative events or life changes.[1] According to this theory, as a person makes more money, expectations and desires rise in tandem, which results in no permanent gain in happiness. Brickman and Campbell coined the term in their essay "Hedonic Relativism and Planning the Good Society" (1971).[2] During the late 1990s, the concept was modified by Michael Eysenck, a British psychologist, to become the current "hedonic treadmill theory" which compares the pursuit of happiness to a person on a treadmill, who has to keep working just to stay in the same place."
- nacker 14y ago
  Possible avenues of escape are under consideration: http://www.superhappiness.com http://www.superhappiness.com http://www.hedweb.com/hedab.htm http://www.hedweb.com/hedab.htm http://hplusmagazine.com/2009/09/16/genomic-bodhisattva/ http://hplusmagazine.com/2009/09/16/genomic-bodhisattva/ http://www.paradise-engineering.com/heaven.htm http://www.paradise-engineering.com/heaven.htm
- Xcelerate 14y ago
  Very good link. From the article, > And contradicting set point theory, there is apparently no return to homeostasis after sustaining a disability or developing a chronic illness. I can vouch for that. I was an avid runner, but two years ago I got cartilage damage in both knees that left me unable to run or even walk entirely normal (I'm 22 years old). After surgery this year, I'm doing much better, but I feel like I've lost a part of myself that I won't ever get back short of complete healing... which unless we get some radical new cartilage science, isn't bound to happen anytime soon. I'm still very happy on a daily basis, just not as much as I used to be.
  - mgkimsal 14y ago
    Do you think your measure of 'happy' changes as well too? It's hard for me to compare my measure of 'happiness' at 22 vs 19 (even when I was 22) because so much was changing in my life at that point. I'm not suggesting you're 'wrong' in your feelings, but for many people, that age period brings about a lot of changes anyway, so comparing 'happy' levels even a few years apart is not a precise science.
prawks 14y ago
The original post on Quora: http://www.quora.com/Wealth/Is-getting-rich-worth-it http://www.quora.com/Wealth/Is-getting-rich-worth-it
- jpdoctor 14y ago
  This should have been the HN link. (And yours should be top comment.) Many many worthy comments in that thread. Edit: To crusso's point, I didn't realize it requires a login. I guess I finally broke down and got one over there a while ago.
  - crusso 14y ago
    Well, that link tried to force me to register or log in. That's not appropriate for a HN link.
    - wingspan 14y ago
      Hmm, I just clicked "close" in the dialog and was able to read all the replies.
    - prawks 14y ago
      *Not appropriate for any website. My mistake, I assumed a link to Quora wouldn't bombard you with a registration request, it's been a while since I've registered.
- stephengillie 14y ago
  I hate having to dig through the console to delete the modal signup wrapper.
- johnnyn 14y ago
  I think the answer from Paul Buchheit on that post is the better one: "I certainly don't regret it. Wealth removes constraints. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing depends on the extent to which you needed those constraints. If you have a serious alcohol or other drug addiction, wealth could be fatal for you. In general, it makes people more of whatever they already were. If you're an asshole, getting more money will probably make you more of an asshole. However, if you have purpose and meaning in your life that goes beyond chasing the golden carrot, money can give you the freedom to focus on the things that truly matter to you. One of the biggest dangers of wealth is that it often causes people to cut themselves off from the larger society, either out of fear or the belief that they are somehow better than others. We are all one."
jpdoctor 14y ago
> Most people now want something out of you This is a common mistake, esp among the newly wealthy who are young: The last thing you want is for anyone to know that you are wealthy. There are many ways to make sure people stay ignorant of your wealth. For the people (and dates) that don't know your wealth, then you sure as hell don't educate them by words or bling. For people that know you had an exit, they never saw the documents and don't know what your number was. And if they probe, then "the investors got most of it, and uncle sam took half of the rest. At least I made a profit." And the truth is: Yes, having the money is nicer than not having it, but it really doesn't make your life worth living or give it meaning. That requires a great deal more effort. Edit: I think Prawks should be top HN comment. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5182922 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5182922
- malandrew 14y ago
  The other piece of advice I always here is that as soon as you have the money, put it away in some safe financial instrument (after you've paid any outstanding debts) for at about a year and keep living your life on exactly the same income you had before you became rich.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - lifeisstillgood 14y ago
    That sounds an excellent idea - plus, to be fair, it kinda solves the "what if I go crazy and spend it" - if the right amount is tied up in trust funds for your children (enough to do something, not enough to do nothing) then you can consider the rest risk-potential and worry less (one hopes) In general however, people who win lotteries tend to go back to their norm of happiness within a year. By the time you are 18 you are either a happy person or not. Sorry.
    - jcbrand 14y ago
      > By the time you are 18 you are either a happy person or not. Sorry. I agreed with everything until your last sentence, which I can tell from personal experience is not true :)
taeric 14y ago
I guess I just can't follow these thoughts. Of course if your alternatives are "be rich" or "not be rich" than it is worth it. Why wouldn't it be? If the option is "abandon your family to attempt to get rich" versus "prioritize your family such that you are comfortable," it seems the latter will win. Also, just because you get "rich" doesn't mean anyone else has to know that. It just means you no longer have to worry about money income problems. Please do not underestimate that, as that is HUGE.
GotAnyMegadeth 14y ago
My plan, if I ever manage to get rich, is to live like a student forever, without having to go to work. I don't really care for owning things, as long as I have got a bass guitar, a laptop and a cat, I'm happy.
- thoughtcriminal 14y ago
  So you think. I'm just kidding. I'm the same way. What makes me happy is my four cats, making other people happy and having a great idea to work on. But it's the idea part that can cause me problems. If I have a good idea I'll do nearly anything to make it happen. I'll spend my bill money to make it real. If/when I become money rich (I'm already rich in other ways) I may scale this risky behavior and still find myself in trouble (as I am now).
  - GotAnyMegadeth 14y ago
    4 cats!? You must be rich already! lol
    - thoughtcriminal 14y ago
      Rich in hairballs, yes.
  - bencollier49 14y ago
    This. I sometimes wonder if the reason that I always push things to the limit in an attempt to do as much as possible with my resources is somehow down to years of playing strategy games on computers, where correctly timing several turns of complete poverty results in massive success 50% of the time. Unfortunately, this behaviour doesn't translate well to a medium in which the "reset" button involves 6 years without access to credit. Hasn't happened yet. Nearly. But fortunately not yet.
- run4yourlives 14y ago
  So, why exactly can't you do that right now?
speeder 14y ago
I want to get rich. But I don't want to do it because I want stuff. I don't want a Audi, or a Maserati, or a fancy home, or the newest gadget. I have a objective, a plan, for me, and for future generations, and I know how much it will cost, and doing it will require me to be rich. And I know how much problems it will attract, how much relationships it will wreck, and how much danger it will bring to my life. But I don't want to get rich for pure hedonism, far form that, it is because of my beliefs, I believe some stuff need to be done, and I concluded that few people will do it, meaning that I will have to do it, since I have to do it, I will figure a way to get rich, and do it. To me, it will be worth, because it will be having the means of pursuing what I believe, but it will also be a sacrifice, it will be the opposite of a life that I had for a long time, it will be the opposite of being laid back, almost lazy, work only for pleasure, and live a peaceful life. It will mean politics, hardwork, backstabbing... But I believe I have a duty to do, and I must do it, and I will venture doing that, and when I get rich, I know I will have to fight very hard to use the money for what I planned, instead of wasting it all in pleasurable stuff.
- swombat 14y ago
  Not sure why you got downvoted... Seems like a very cogent, honest and down to earth comment.
- ph0rque 14y ago
  This is a very noble comment. I feel the same way about my side project, except I don't think it requires me to get rich to attain it. In fact, I'm not sure what it requires, so I'm finding out as I go along.
- willismichael 14y ago
  Why backstabbing? Is that really necessary? Sure, politics and hard work, and even hustling (as used by Steven Corona here: http://stevecorona.com/college-was-my-biggest-mistake http://stevecorona.com/college-was-my-biggest-mistake, rather than the "semi-legal activities" pop definition) I just don't see backstabbing as a necessary (or even effective) means to accomplish an end, no matter how noble the end may be.
TamDenholm 14y ago
I'm not rich, but when i was a teenager and still living with my parents i went from being without heating for a month in the winter because we couldnt afford the bills to now where i earn more than enough to live. I've experienced what the author is talking about. I remember having to make sure we only spent a certain amount on food and clothes and now i dont even need to consider such a thing. Day to day life is better by a country mile knowing i have enough money to pay for general life expenses. I still cant go out an buy a car without thinking about it, but i could buy a TV without thinking about it. Once you have that level of complacency you start aspiring to other things and its difficult to maintain a level. I like good food and once went to the best restaurant in my city i spent £250 for a meal for 2 and i didnt care about the money, i could do that once every few weeks, but i wouldnt do it more than once/twice every year, because i know it would bring my level of expectancy higher. I think its important you keep yourself comfortable, but dont allow yourself to get used to the finer things you love, because then you wont love them any more and you'll expect them and they wont be special any more.
- jpdoctor 14y ago
  > but dont allow yourself to get used to the finer things you love, because then you wont love them any more and you'll expect them and they wont be special any more. I agree with most of your comment, but the last one causes me to ask: If simple repetition is enough to lose love for these "finer" things, then why waste effort on them anymore? Why not spend effort on things that will hold your love more permanently? (or at least with a longer time constant...)
  - TamDenholm 14y ago
    Well i'm not saying there aren't things like that, but for instance, nice restaurants, quad biking and weekends away with the gf are things i enjoy immensely but dont do very often because if i did i think i wouldnt enjoy them as much, the very fact its a treat and not a normal occurrence is a large reason i enjoy them. That isnt to say you shouldnt work towards finding longer term things that are less fickle and bring more overall life enjoyment that sticks, but the examples i gave are temporary by nature and my point was that not doing them often makes them special and i personally want to keep that. I dont know why i would give these things up just because i'd not love them any more if i did them every week. They provide long term happiness because they're rare and i can look forward to them and remember them.
louischatriot 14y ago
I'd like to become rich. Not to buy stuff I can't buy today but because of the possibilities it gives you. If you have a few millions in your bank account, you can take whatever job you like, create a company without fearing that failure will put you on the street etc. Then again I can imagine the downsides, as the article explains. I think it all boils down to "dont tell people how rich you are". Tldr version: http://tldr.io/tldrs/5113da0cb507aa413100001d/is-getting-rich-worth-it http://tldr.io/tldrs/5113da0cb507aa413100001d/is-getting-ric...
pknerd 14y ago
Not for me but I do need enough money to fulfill what I want to. No excessive money needed.
pvdm 14y ago
Everyone live in their own personal bubble. Go volunteer at a food bank sometimes.
lawn 14y ago
I want to get rich, not for the sake of it, the "power" or statue. I want to get rich so I can fulfill some of my dreams - I want to live near my birthplace where the job opportunities aren't so good, I want to own a snooker table and a nice house and most of all I don't want the pressure to always have to provide for my eventual family. I want to get rich so I can get away with working with fun, but high risk, projects without having to live like a student. I would like to be able to make indie games for a living, but the risk is too big for me to stake my family on.
- edraferi 14y ago
  You should read "So Good They Can't Ignore You." It lays out a clever mental model for turning interests into skills into control over your career. http://www.amazon.com/Good-They-Cant-Ignore-You/dp/1455509124/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1360259773&sr=8-1&keywords=so+good+they+can%27t+ignore+you http://www.amazon.com/Good-They-Cant-Ignore-You/dp/145550912...
  - lawn 14y ago
    I might actually do that. Thanks for the tip.
scarmig 14y ago
Can't most of these great injustices be solved by the newly rich person not bragging about it and living roughly on what they were consuming before plus 25-50%? Yeah, yeah, you just got this big chunk of change and you want to spend it on Tesla cars and the French Laundry and vacation homes! But when you engage in flagrant consumption people notice and start wanting in on the action. Figure out what the average amount consumed for someone in the 90th percentile and stick strictly to that budget (and you won't be taking on debt to do it!). Throw any excess money you have around in interesting investments and social ventures. Even if people find out you're loaded, if you're living modestly they'll know not to expect you to act that differently.
- phillmv 14y ago
  I'm entirely uninterested in these people's problems. The mere question in the title seems preposterous, verging on offensive.
  - therobot24 14y ago
    I think you're illustrating the first point of the article quite well.
    - willholloway 14y ago
      I agree that that point is a valid complaint, but a complaint is all it is. If the money was really bringing someone down so much, the problem could be dispensed with by writing one check to a charity of their choice. The fact that wealthy people do not give all of their money away is proof that having it is better than not having it.
      - therobot24 14y ago
        oh yea for sure. Then again, assuming you're not born into it, I would assume it's difficult to just give away a large portion of the wealth you've accumulated through hard work. There is also the 'rainy day fund'...which signifies another point the author made about worrying about investments. If he loses his money, and suddenly needs it there is a significant amount of regret.
stephengillie 14y ago
I'd rather have wealth than money. I'd rather live in a world where our needs are met through a wealth of automation than be a rich man today. Money Is Not Wealth If you want to create wealth, it will help to understand what it is. Wealth is not the same thing as money. [3] Wealth is as old as human history. Far older, in fact; ants have wealth. Money is a comparatively recent invention. Wealth is the fundamental thing. Wealth is stuff we want: food, clothes, houses, cars, gadgets, travel to interesting places, and so on. You can have wealth without having money. If you had a magic machine that could on command make you a car or cook you dinner or do your laundry, or do anything else you wanted, you wouldn't need money. Whereas if you were in the middle of Antarctica, where there is nothing to buy, it wouldn't matter how much money you had. http://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html http://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html
brador 14y ago
I know a few rich and I haven't seen something mentioned here: Everything becomes boring. Hobbies are awesome because you have to anticipate and wait to do them. Imagine doing nothing but your hobbies 14 hours a day. Then when you're bored of all your hobbies you have nothing else to do. So you hit up vegas. That lasts 2-3 years then you call it. Anecdotal? Yes, but I've seen it happen way too often. Figure out something to do. Just something, start a cheap cafe and hire workers, a manufacturing plant for wallpaper, whatever. Just have something to do thats not all about you so you don't have to keep asking yourself what should I do now? Becuase that question will become a thorn in your side.
mandlar 14y ago
I don't want to be rich, per se... I'd rather simply obtain "financial independence" where I am sufficiently happy with what I have and I can do what I absolutely love to do for a living and not necessarily have to worry about money. Getting "rich" would just simply jump me quicker to this state of "financial independence."
joshfraser 14y ago
Money is the world's curse. May the Lord smite me with it.
nell 14y ago
Don't give a loan to friends and family. Give a gift. I'm not rich. But I do follow this one principle that I also strongly recommend.
codegeek 14y ago
He says "being rich is better than not being rich..." So sure it is worth it. Totally understood that it introduces other complications or it may not be as fulfilling as you imagined.
up_and_up 14y ago
There's only one way to find out for yourself.
orangethirty 14y ago
I don't know if its worth it, but I don't really like the alternative (being broke). These days, you either have money or you don't. There is no middle class.
dakimov 14y ago
Yes. Next question. An extremely authoritative opinion from some Anonymous that appears more like speculations doesn't count.
swombat 14y ago
I want to get rich because money, that commonplace, almost vulgar device, can be traded for time, the most precious thing in the universe, and for influence, a multiplier of time/action that can help me to achieve more good things in my life.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- mindcrime 14y ago
  Exactly. I don't need a ton of material things in life. I mean, sure, it'd be nice to have a nice house, a nice car, and a few toys. But beyond that, I just want to be "rich" enough to have the freedom to do things I enjoy doing, and to not have to worry about money. I'd like to not have to ever worry "what if my car breaks down, will I be able to afford repairs" or whatever. If I could build Fogbeam Labs to a point where an exit would leave me with, say, 3-4 million USD, I'd be set. That's not egregious wealth, not enough for a yacht and a private jet and all the "stuff" that Larry Ellison or Bill Gates have. But it would be enough to live the rest of my life, without being under the thumb of a "boss", and would give me the flexibility to do some traveling and spend time doing stuff I enjoy doing. That's all I need. Well, OK, that and a redheaded supermodel and a Maserati[1][2]. ;-) [1]: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4107942 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4107942 [2]: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4235317 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4235317
saosebastiao 14y ago
I object to the idea expressed near the end...that if you aren't happy now, money will not change that. While I am nowhere near as rich as the author, my financial situation has changed drastically in the last year. The lack of stress that I now experience is absolutely a factor in my increased happiness.
ArchD 14y ago
So, according to the author if you let people already in your life know about your wealth, they may act weird and have unreasonable expectations about sharing in your wealth. I think that can be a good thing. It brings out a side of people you never knew. It could tell you who your true friends and family are. The true ones are the ones who don't expect a free ride.
haberman 14y ago
> First, one of the only real things being rich gives you is that you don't have to worry about money as much anymore. I disagree with this. One thing being rich gives you is the ability to make things happen. Being a benefactor of a cause or artistic organization or an investor in a startup means that you can help set into motion meaningful projects that you believe in that would not otherwise have been possible. I'm a singer and one group I sing with has a benefactor who has financed all of our recording projects. We put his name in the CD notes and that guy can know that without his support the CD simply could not have happened. I have to believe that's a deeply gratifying feeling.
- jaggederest 14y ago
  Money isn't useful for it's own sake. Money is a proxy for power, which is why people complain about how it changes their lives.
- jhuni 14y ago
  Capitalism is a system of alienation. For us hackers this is clear as day as the many proprietary software programs out there directly alienate people from the process of software production. Perhaps the best thing about being a capitalist is that you are no longer alienated from production like everyone else so you can make things happen.
  - willholloway 14y ago
    Absolutely. The article does not include the cost of alienation and serfdom into its calculus. How much would you pay for freedom?
  - elemenohpee 14y ago
    That's what's so twisted about the American Dream™, is that it's the desire for a certain type of individual freedom, but a freedom that is always based on the subjugation of others. It's not a universal freedom, which to me is the only kind.
- user24 14y ago
  > One thing being rich gives you is the ability to make things happen. Money does not have exclusivity on this ability. I'm a member of the Friends of Northampton Castle[1], a group of people interested in the heritage of my home town. Time is far far more important than money to groups like this. We've had an architect put together a 3D reconstruction in his spare time (which I scripted and voiced in my spare time).[2] We've spoken with the local library to get copies of some photos of the castle to put on our website (gathering local press attention by doing so). We've lobbied and met with various groups with huge amounts of success. Not because we're well funded but because our members are able and willing to give their time to the project. I've given my time to blog, tweet and facebook for them, etc etc. In large part thanks to our activities, the people in charge of redeveloping the site (now a train station) have performed an archaeological exploratory trench - and found castle walls and a saxon brooch.[3] Don't be tempted to think that you can't make real changes without money. [1] http://www.northamptoncastle.com http://www.northamptoncastle.com I run the website, would be interested in feedback. [2] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lp6TCRc9KVo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lp6TCRc9KVo [3] http://www.northamptoncastle.com/posts/castle-station-evaluation-trench/ http://www.northamptoncastle.com/posts/castle-station-evalua...
dclowd9901 14y ago
Despite reading the entire post, I still want to be rich. That's pretty telling about how marginal all these problems sound to someone without money.
MojoJolo 14y ago
Honestly, I want to get rich. To have a stable life. To prove my self worth.
- hmbg 14y ago
  Your second reason is an interesting one. Winning the lottery may be nice, but I don't think it would impact my level of happiness in a big way. The confidence I'd get from selling my company for millions of dollars, that's another thing entirely. That's something I strive for.
  - MojoJolo 14y ago
    You're right. Lottery is not one of my plan to get rich. Other than money. I believe getting something you strive for is really worth it. It will give you happiness.
georgelawrence 14y ago
Do this experiment: 1. Go to Google.com 2. Enter "filthy stinking" into the box 3. Notice the first autocomplete suggestion
harryh 14y ago
Flagged for linking to a site that is blatantly stealing content. Link should go to the original on Quora: http://www.quora.com/Wealth/Is-getting-rich-worth-it http://www.quora.com/Wealth/Is-getting-rich-worth-it
- nobody-special 14y ago
  it says so right on the box: "curaqion is a monthly curation of high quality answers from fascinating topics and questions on Quora."
jhuni 14y ago
Proletarians suffer from the four kinds of alienation Marx referred to in the Economic and Philosophic Manuscripts of 1844 (1) alienation from products (2) alienation from the act of production (3) alienation from ones own life (4) alienation from fellow laborers. The forms of alienations the bourgeoisie have to go through are not nearly as acute as the alienation of the proletariat. Perhaps the most important aspect of being as rich as a bourgeoisie is that you have a secure existence. You don't have to worry about finding a job, paying for health care, paying child support, paying rent on time so that you don't have to join the masses of homeless people living in the cold, or any of the other things ordinary people have to worry about. Having a secure existence is a major stress reliever and it makes your life better no question.
kennethologist 14y ago
This quora thread provided a great deal of illumination for me on the question "Is getting rich worth it?" http://www.quora.com/Wealth/Is-getting-rich-worth-it http://www.quora.com/Wealth/Is-getting-rich-worth-it Top answer summary: Here's my answer: being rich is better than not being rich, but it's not nearly as good as you imagine it is.
sosuke 14y ago
As much as I am working my butt off right now, if I don't get rich then it wouldn't have been worth it. When I do get rich, and for some reason I find it wasn't worth the sacrifices, then I will lie to myself about it. Humans have an amazing capacity for denial.
antirez 14y ago
Nice post but the guy completely forgot to say that over a certain level of richness you start to stop worryng about work. That for most people here means probably to work even more, but just coding what they believe is significant, when you feel with the right energy, and not what the current company / job believes it is. I believe there is a significant amount of people that every day wake up and go make something they believe it is useless, just to pay the bills. Richness can stop this massive personal sacrifice. Clarification: As you can guess I'm very happy with my current job, the problem is, I wrote useless code for many years when I started to pay my bills as a programmer. Later I created companies and I was able to escape the sadness of writing useless code. However the fear of returning into this condition is always present, especially with a loan that I used to purchase a new house, children, and so forth.
- sleep4dead 14y ago
  "...especially with a loan that I used to purchase a new house, children, and so forth" You used a loan to purchase children?! That is horrible!
- silvestrov 14y ago
  He did say it: you don't have to worry about money as much anymore, so you can quit your job at anytime because you don't need the money.
- ownagefool 14y ago
  I go to work every week day to do stupid stuff people want me to do it stupid ways to pay for a stupid house and stupid food in order to make sure I survive. For the area I live, I get paid reasonably well I'd say and I do it they way because they pay more than the other guy. Money offers choices. It allows people to live and work where they want and makes it a helluva lot easier to stand up for yourself or leave your job to find your passion. I currently have none of these allowances. Even without any it's plain to see how money can make it easier to be happy in life, but at the end of the day happiness is up to yourself. I'm reasonably happy without any money, but I know if I had some, I could probably make myself happier. :p
- dos1 14y ago
jnbiche 14y ago
The mere suggestion that all of us middle-class schmucks are out here dreaming of an Audi or some other bling shows how out of touch he/she is with middle class America. Maybe that's the way it was in the 1980s, but now most of us in the middle class are just desperately trying to pay rising insurance bills, electricity bills, childcare, groceries, and clawing with all our might to not fall out of the middle class. I can honestly say I haven't thought about wanting money for something that wasn't an absolute necessity for a decent middle class life since my early 20s (I'm in my late 30s now). Many of us don't even dream about getting rich -- we just dream of having enough income to pay the bills. Based on my experiences, and that of my peers, middle class life around the country is changing drastically. I've watched a number of families formerly in the upper middle class fall into the mundane middle class, and middle class folks fall into the lower classes. I wonder if the boom in SV has isolated many of you from this. If that's the case, I'm sincerely glad you don't have to deal with it -- it's depressing to do well in school and work hard, only to see the dreams of a stable, secure middle-class life float away. For most of us, it's just paycheck to paycheck now.
- elemenohpee 14y ago
  > For most of us, it's just paycheck to paycheck now. Everything is going according to plan. When you see how perfectly all of this lines up with the interests of the plutocrats you just have to wonder to what degree it is conscious collusion. What lies do they tell themselves in the pursuit of economic power and the subsequent subjugation of the population, or have they completely dispensed with even the pretense of plebeian morality?
pg 14y ago
The next thing you need to understand about money is this: all of the things you picture buying, they are only worthwhile to you because you cannot afford them (or have to work really hard to acquire them). That was one of the biggest surprises for me. I never realized the degree to which not being able to afford certain things was what was making me want them. That childhood excitement of saving up your money to buy some coveted thing is completely gone. And without it you find you covet the thing far less. When you realize you can bring it home from the store whenever you want, you're often surprised to find yourself thinking "let them keep it there for now." Curiously, this affects people in different ways. When the excitement of e.g. buying a fancy car is diminished by 10x, some people respond by buying 10 fancy cars, and others just lose interest. I turned out to be in the latter group, and judging from what I've seen in SV, a lot of HN readers probably also would be. It's slightly sad, in the way that losing one's appetite or sexual desire might be. On the other hand, you're arguably less of a slave to people marketing luxuries, and the other things you long for might be more worth longing for.
- speeder 14y ago
  In 2011 my income was 30k USD. This is a truckload of money in Brazil, it is harder to get more money than that, I was a "Solutions Architect" and R&D head of a medium mobile solutions company. To me, I was bloody rich, I mean, I never had this kind of money before, my whole extended family were envious and made lots of really mean jokes (and people made lots of "jokes" asking things, obviously expecting that maybe you will buy it for them). I noticed then that many things I wanted, I decided to buy them later, for example I still don't own a single game console, because I thought: "Aaah, I will only buy PS3, and I will do it when Final Fantasy Versus get released". The most expensive thing I bought, were my glasses, because since I need them every day, it made sense to expend some more money seeking quality (I hired a good custom lensmaker and all). In fact, I did not knew what to do with my money, so I ended throwing good part of it at bitcoins (and losing it doing crazy leveraged trading). It was a time that I worked because I liked the job (by the way: when I sent the resume, I asked for 18k, I got 30k because THEY offered it, it was not me that asked!)
  - jhartmann 14y ago
givan 14y ago
Is eating healthier, living in a better environment, having access to better health services etc worth it? In the capitalist system you can't have them without a non trivial amount of money.
davemel37 14y ago
This title is slightly misleading." Most of the downsides he has about being rich revolve around OTHERS KNOWING THAT HE IS RICH, and are not a product of him actually being rich. The post should be titled,"Why I Don't Want Anyone To Know When I Strike It Rich, Especially My Relatives."
andrewdubinsky 14y ago
My dad only gave me a few bits of advice, but on money he said, "Money does not buy happiness, but it does whitewash a lot of problems".
nell 14y ago
A good target would be to become a person worthy of the wealth. This is also the reason why lottery winners are said to go bust.
aj700 14y ago
My putting arguments from an explicitly European perspective always gets me in trouble here. But here I go. There may (MAY) be some Socalization [sic] going on here. I.e. Americans think this is what people do in America, therefore they must be like this everywhere. Americans might keep expecting you to give them a car as a Christmas present. Europeans would never be so materialistic as to want or expect one. Have at it. The overall TCO of a nice German car is easily $1m. So most people don't understand that 15m is only 15 cars. And I mean only. And you can't buy anything else on that hypothetical basis. Is my partner into my or my money? Maybe I DON'T know the answer to that. But I'm past caring.
cpursley 14y ago
Wealth simply amplifies who you already are.

168 points by jesseddy 14y ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill "The hedonic treadmill, also known as hedonic adaptation, is the supposed tendency of humans to quickly return to a relatively stable level of happiness despite major positive or negative events or life changes.[1] According to this theory, as a person makes more money, expectations and desires rise in tandem, which results in no permanent gain in happiness. Brickman and Campbell coined the term in their essay "Hedonic Relativism and Planning the Good Society" (1971).[2] During the late 1990s, the concept was modified by Michael Eysenck, a British psychologist, to become the current "hedonic treadmill theory" which compares the pursuit of happiness to a person on a treadmill, who has to keep working just to stay in the same place."

nacker 14y ago
Possible avenues of escape are under consideration: http://www.superhappiness.com http://www.superhappiness.com http://www.hedweb.com/hedab.htm http://www.hedweb.com/hedab.htm http://hplusmagazine.com/2009/09/16/genomic-bodhisattva/ http://hplusmagazine.com/2009/09/16/genomic-bodhisattva/ http://www.paradise-engineering.com/heaven.htm http://www.paradise-engineering.com/heaven.htm
Xcelerate 14y ago
Very good link. From the article, > And contradicting set point theory, there is apparently no return to homeostasis after sustaining a disability or developing a chronic illness. I can vouch for that. I was an avid runner, but two years ago I got cartilage damage in both knees that left me unable to run or even walk entirely normal (I'm 22 years old). After surgery this year, I'm doing much better, but I feel like I've lost a part of myself that I won't ever get back short of complete healing... which unless we get some radical new cartilage science, isn't bound to happen anytime soon. I'm still very happy on a daily basis, just not as much as I used to be.
- mgkimsal 14y ago
  Do you think your measure of 'happy' changes as well too? It's hard for me to compare my measure of 'happiness' at 22 vs 19 (even when I was 22) because so much was changing in my life at that point. I'm not suggesting you're 'wrong' in your feelings, but for many people, that age period brings about a lot of changes anyway, so comparing 'happy' levels even a few years apart is not a precise science.

prawks 14y ago

The original post on Quora: http://www.quora.com/Wealth/Is-getting-rich-worth-it http://www.quora.com/Wealth/Is-getting-rich-worth-it

jpdoctor 14y ago
This should have been the HN link. (And yours should be top comment.) Many many worthy comments in that thread. Edit: To crusso's point, I didn't realize it requires a login. I guess I finally broke down and got one over there a while ago.
- crusso 14y ago
  Well, that link tried to force me to register or log in. That's not appropriate for a HN link.
  - wingspan 14y ago
    Hmm, I just clicked "close" in the dialog and was able to read all the replies.
  - prawks 14y ago
    *Not appropriate for any website. My mistake, I assumed a link to Quora wouldn't bombard you with a registration request, it's been a while since I've registered.
stephengillie 14y ago
I hate having to dig through the console to delete the modal signup wrapper.
johnnyn 14y ago
I think the answer from Paul Buchheit on that post is the better one: "I certainly don't regret it. Wealth removes constraints. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing depends on the extent to which you needed those constraints. If you have a serious alcohol or other drug addiction, wealth could be fatal for you. In general, it makes people more of whatever they already were. If you're an asshole, getting more money will probably make you more of an asshole. However, if you have purpose and meaning in your life that goes beyond chasing the golden carrot, money can give you the freedom to focus on the things that truly matter to you. One of the biggest dangers of wealth is that it often causes people to cut themselves off from the larger society, either out of fear or the belief that they are somehow better than others. We are all one."

jpdoctor 14y ago

> Most people now want something out of you This is a common mistake, esp among the newly wealthy who are young: The last thing you want is for anyone to know that you are wealthy. There are many ways to make sure people stay ignorant of your wealth. For the people (and dates) that don't know your wealth, then you sure as hell don't educate them by words or bling. For people that know you had an exit, they never saw the documents and don't know what your number was. And if they probe, then "the investors got most of it, and uncle sam took half of the rest. At least I made a profit." And the truth is: Yes, having the money is nicer than not having it, but it really doesn't make your life worth living or give it meaning. That requires a great deal more effort. Edit: I think Prawks should be top HN comment. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5182922 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5182922

malandrew 14y ago
The other piece of advice I always here is that as soon as you have the money, put it away in some safe financial instrument (after you've paid any outstanding debts) for at about a year and keep living your life on exactly the same income you had before you became rich.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- lifeisstillgood 14y ago
  That sounds an excellent idea - plus, to be fair, it kinda solves the "what if I go crazy and spend it" - if the right amount is tied up in trust funds for your children (enough to do something, not enough to do nothing) then you can consider the rest risk-potential and worry less (one hopes) In general however, people who win lotteries tend to go back to their norm of happiness within a year. By the time you are 18 you are either a happy person or not. Sorry.
  - jcbrand 14y ago
    > By the time you are 18 you are either a happy person or not. Sorry. I agreed with everything until your last sentence, which I can tell from personal experience is not true :)

taeric 14y ago

I guess I just can't follow these thoughts. Of course if your alternatives are "be rich" or "not be rich" than it is worth it. Why wouldn't it be? If the option is "abandon your family to attempt to get rich" versus "prioritize your family such that you are comfortable," it seems the latter will win. Also, just because you get "rich" doesn't mean anyone else has to know that. It just means you no longer have to worry about money income problems. Please do not underestimate that, as that is HUGE.

GotAnyMegadeth 14y ago

My plan, if I ever manage to get rich, is to live like a student forever, without having to go to work. I don't really care for owning things, as long as I have got a bass guitar, a laptop and a cat, I'm happy.

thoughtcriminal 14y ago
So you think. I'm just kidding. I'm the same way. What makes me happy is my four cats, making other people happy and having a great idea to work on. But it's the idea part that can cause me problems. If I have a good idea I'll do nearly anything to make it happen. I'll spend my bill money to make it real. If/when I become money rich (I'm already rich in other ways) I may scale this risky behavior and still find myself in trouble (as I am now).
- GotAnyMegadeth 14y ago
  4 cats!? You must be rich already! lol
  - thoughtcriminal 14y ago
    Rich in hairballs, yes.
- bencollier49 14y ago
  This. I sometimes wonder if the reason that I always push things to the limit in an attempt to do as much as possible with my resources is somehow down to years of playing strategy games on computers, where correctly timing several turns of complete poverty results in massive success 50% of the time. Unfortunately, this behaviour doesn't translate well to a medium in which the "reset" button involves 6 years without access to credit. Hasn't happened yet. Nearly. But fortunately not yet.
run4yourlives 14y ago
So, why exactly can't you do that right now?

speeder 14y ago

I want to get rich. But I don't want to do it because I want stuff. I don't want a Audi, or a Maserati, or a fancy home, or the newest gadget. I have a objective, a plan, for me, and for future generations, and I know how much it will cost, and doing it will require me to be rich. And I know how much problems it will attract, how much relationships it will wreck, and how much danger it will bring to my life. But I don't want to get rich for pure hedonism, far form that, it is because of my beliefs, I believe some stuff need to be done, and I concluded that few people will do it, meaning that I will have to do it, since I have to do it, I will figure a way to get rich, and do it. To me, it will be worth, because it will be having the means of pursuing what I believe, but it will also be a sacrifice, it will be the opposite of a life that I had for a long time, it will be the opposite of being laid back, almost lazy, work only for pleasure, and live a peaceful life. It will mean politics, hardwork, backstabbing... But I believe I have a duty to do, and I must do it, and I will venture doing that, and when I get rich, I know I will have to fight very hard to use the money for what I planned, instead of wasting it all in pleasurable stuff.

swombat 14y ago
Not sure why you got downvoted... Seems like a very cogent, honest and down to earth comment.
ph0rque 14y ago
This is a very noble comment. I feel the same way about my side project, except I don't think it requires me to get rich to attain it. In fact, I'm not sure what it requires, so I'm finding out as I go along.
willismichael 14y ago
Why backstabbing? Is that really necessary? Sure, politics and hard work, and even hustling (as used by Steven Corona here: http://stevecorona.com/college-was-my-biggest-mistake http://stevecorona.com/college-was-my-biggest-mistake, rather than the "semi-legal activities" pop definition) I just don't see backstabbing as a necessary (or even effective) means to accomplish an end, no matter how noble the end may be.

TamDenholm 14y ago

I'm not rich, but when i was a teenager and still living with my parents i went from being without heating for a month in the winter because we couldnt afford the bills to now where i earn more than enough to live. I've experienced what the author is talking about. I remember having to make sure we only spent a certain amount on food and clothes and now i dont even need to consider such a thing. Day to day life is better by a country mile knowing i have enough money to pay for general life expenses. I still cant go out an buy a car without thinking about it, but i could buy a TV without thinking about it. Once you have that level of complacency you start aspiring to other things and its difficult to maintain a level. I like good food and once went to the best restaurant in my city i spent £250 for a meal for 2 and i didnt care about the money, i could do that once every few weeks, but i wouldnt do it more than once/twice every year, because i know it would bring my level of expectancy higher. I think its important you keep yourself comfortable, but dont allow yourself to get used to the finer things you love, because then you wont love them any more and you'll expect them and they wont be special any more.

jpdoctor 14y ago
> but dont allow yourself to get used to the finer things you love, because then you wont love them any more and you'll expect them and they wont be special any more. I agree with most of your comment, but the last one causes me to ask: If simple repetition is enough to lose love for these "finer" things, then why waste effort on them anymore? Why not spend effort on things that will hold your love more permanently? (or at least with a longer time constant...)
- TamDenholm 14y ago
  Well i'm not saying there aren't things like that, but for instance, nice restaurants, quad biking and weekends away with the gf are things i enjoy immensely but dont do very often because if i did i think i wouldnt enjoy them as much, the very fact its a treat and not a normal occurrence is a large reason i enjoy them. That isnt to say you shouldnt work towards finding longer term things that are less fickle and bring more overall life enjoyment that sticks, but the examples i gave are temporary by nature and my point was that not doing them often makes them special and i personally want to keep that. I dont know why i would give these things up just because i'd not love them any more if i did them every week. They provide long term happiness because they're rare and i can look forward to them and remember them.

louischatriot 14y ago

I'd like to become rich. Not to buy stuff I can't buy today but because of the possibilities it gives you. If you have a few millions in your bank account, you can take whatever job you like, create a company without fearing that failure will put you on the street etc. Then again I can imagine the downsides, as the article explains. I think it all boils down to "dont tell people how rich you are". Tldr version: http://tldr.io/tldrs/5113da0cb507aa413100001d/is-getting-rich-worth-it http://tldr.io/tldrs/5113da0cb507aa413100001d/is-getting-ric...

pknerd 14y ago

Not for me but I do need enough money to fulfill what I want to. No excessive money needed.

pvdm 14y ago

Everyone live in their own personal bubble. Go volunteer at a food bank sometimes.

lawn 14y ago

I want to get rich, not for the sake of it, the "power" or statue. I want to get rich so I can fulfill some of my dreams - I want to live near my birthplace where the job opportunities aren't so good, I want to own a snooker table and a nice house and most of all I don't want the pressure to always have to provide for my eventual family. I want to get rich so I can get away with working with fun, but high risk, projects without having to live like a student. I would like to be able to make indie games for a living, but the risk is too big for me to stake my family on.

edraferi 14y ago
You should read "So Good They Can't Ignore You." It lays out a clever mental model for turning interests into skills into control over your career. http://www.amazon.com/Good-They-Cant-Ignore-You/dp/1455509124/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1360259773&sr=8-1&keywords=so+good+they+can%27t+ignore+you http://www.amazon.com/Good-They-Cant-Ignore-You/dp/145550912...
- lawn 14y ago
  I might actually do that. Thanks for the tip.

scarmig 14y ago

Can't most of these great injustices be solved by the newly rich person not bragging about it and living roughly on what they were consuming before plus 25-50%? Yeah, yeah, you just got this big chunk of change and you want to spend it on Tesla cars and the French Laundry and vacation homes! But when you engage in flagrant consumption people notice and start wanting in on the action. Figure out what the average amount consumed for someone in the 90th percentile and stick strictly to that budget (and you won't be taking on debt to do it!). Throw any excess money you have around in interesting investments and social ventures. Even if people find out you're loaded, if you're living modestly they'll know not to expect you to act that differently.

phillmv 14y ago
I'm entirely uninterested in these people's problems. The mere question in the title seems preposterous, verging on offensive.
- therobot24 14y ago
  I think you're illustrating the first point of the article quite well.
  - willholloway 14y ago
    I agree that that point is a valid complaint, but a complaint is all it is. If the money was really bringing someone down so much, the problem could be dispensed with by writing one check to a charity of their choice. The fact that wealthy people do not give all of their money away is proof that having it is better than not having it.
    - therobot24 14y ago
      oh yea for sure. Then again, assuming you're not born into it, I would assume it's difficult to just give away a large portion of the wealth you've accumulated through hard work. There is also the 'rainy day fund'...which signifies another point the author made about worrying about investments. If he loses his money, and suddenly needs it there is a significant amount of regret.

stephengillie 14y ago

I'd rather have wealth than money. I'd rather live in a world where our needs are met through a wealth of automation than be a rich man today. Money Is Not Wealth If you want to create wealth, it will help to understand what it is. Wealth is not the same thing as money. [3] Wealth is as old as human history. Far older, in fact; ants have wealth. Money is a comparatively recent invention. Wealth is the fundamental thing. Wealth is stuff we want: food, clothes, houses, cars, gadgets, travel to interesting places, and so on. You can have wealth without having money. If you had a magic machine that could on command make you a car or cook you dinner or do your laundry, or do anything else you wanted, you wouldn't need money. Whereas if you were in the middle of Antarctica, where there is nothing to buy, it wouldn't matter how much money you had. http://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html http://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html

brador 14y ago

I know a few rich and I haven't seen something mentioned here: Everything becomes boring. Hobbies are awesome because you have to anticipate and wait to do them. Imagine doing nothing but your hobbies 14 hours a day. Then when you're bored of all your hobbies you have nothing else to do. So you hit up vegas. That lasts 2-3 years then you call it. Anecdotal? Yes, but I've seen it happen way too often. Figure out something to do. Just something, start a cheap cafe and hire workers, a manufacturing plant for wallpaper, whatever. Just have something to do thats not all about you so you don't have to keep asking yourself what should I do now? Becuase that question will become a thorn in your side.

mandlar 14y ago

I don't want to be rich, per se... I'd rather simply obtain "financial independence" where I am sufficiently happy with what I have and I can do what I absolutely love to do for a living and not necessarily have to worry about money. Getting "rich" would just simply jump me quicker to this state of "financial independence."

joshfraser 14y ago

Money is the world's curse. May the Lord smite me with it.

nell 14y ago

Don't give a loan to friends and family. Give a gift. I'm not rich. But I do follow this one principle that I also strongly recommend.

codegeek 14y ago

He says "being rich is better than not being rich..." So sure it is worth it. Totally understood that it introduces other complications or it may not be as fulfilling as you imagined.

up_and_up 14y ago

There's only one way to find out for yourself.

orangethirty 14y ago

I don't know if its worth it, but I don't really like the alternative (being broke). These days, you either have money or you don't. There is no middle class.

dakimov 14y ago

Yes. Next question. An extremely authoritative opinion from some Anonymous that appears more like speculations doesn't count.

swombat 14y ago

I want to get rich because money, that commonplace, almost vulgar device, can be traded for time, the most precious thing in the universe, and for influence, a multiplier of time/action that can help me to achieve more good things in my life.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
mindcrime 14y ago
Exactly. I don't need a ton of material things in life. I mean, sure, it'd be nice to have a nice house, a nice car, and a few toys. But beyond that, I just want to be "rich" enough to have the freedom to do things I enjoy doing, and to not have to worry about money. I'd like to not have to ever worry "what if my car breaks down, will I be able to afford repairs" or whatever. If I could build Fogbeam Labs to a point where an exit would leave me with, say, 3-4 million USD, I'd be set. That's not egregious wealth, not enough for a yacht and a private jet and all the "stuff" that Larry Ellison or Bill Gates have. But it would be enough to live the rest of my life, without being under the thumb of a "boss", and would give me the flexibility to do some traveling and spend time doing stuff I enjoy doing. That's all I need. Well, OK, that and a redheaded supermodel and a Maserati[1][2]. ;-) [1]: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4107942 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4107942 [2]: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4235317 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4235317

saosebastiao 14y ago

I object to the idea expressed near the end...that if you aren't happy now, money will not change that. While I am nowhere near as rich as the author, my financial situation has changed drastically in the last year. The lack of stress that I now experience is absolutely a factor in my increased happiness.

ArchD 14y ago

So, according to the author if you let people already in your life know about your wealth, they may act weird and have unreasonable expectations about sharing in your wealth. I think that can be a good thing. It brings out a side of people you never knew. It could tell you who your true friends and family are. The true ones are the ones who don't expect a free ride.

haberman 14y ago

> First, one of the only real things being rich gives you is that you don't have to worry about money as much anymore. I disagree with this. One thing being rich gives you is the ability to make things happen. Being a benefactor of a cause or artistic organization or an investor in a startup means that you can help set into motion meaningful projects that you believe in that would not otherwise have been possible. I'm a singer and one group I sing with has a benefactor who has financed all of our recording projects. We put his name in the CD notes and that guy can know that without his support the CD simply could not have happened. I have to believe that's a deeply gratifying feeling.

jaggederest 14y ago
Money isn't useful for it's own sake. Money is a proxy for power, which is why people complain about how it changes their lives.
jhuni 14y ago
Capitalism is a system of alienation. For us hackers this is clear as day as the many proprietary software programs out there directly alienate people from the process of software production. Perhaps the best thing about being a capitalist is that you are no longer alienated from production like everyone else so you can make things happen.
- willholloway 14y ago
  Absolutely. The article does not include the cost of alienation and serfdom into its calculus. How much would you pay for freedom?
- elemenohpee 14y ago
  That's what's so twisted about the American Dream™, is that it's the desire for a certain type of individual freedom, but a freedom that is always based on the subjugation of others. It's not a universal freedom, which to me is the only kind.
user24 14y ago
> One thing being rich gives you is the ability to make things happen. Money does not have exclusivity on this ability. I'm a member of the Friends of Northampton Castle[1], a group of people interested in the heritage of my home town. Time is far far more important than money to groups like this. We've had an architect put together a 3D reconstruction in his spare time (which I scripted and voiced in my spare time).[2] We've spoken with the local library to get copies of some photos of the castle to put on our website (gathering local press attention by doing so). We've lobbied and met with various groups with huge amounts of success. Not because we're well funded but because our members are able and willing to give their time to the project. I've given my time to blog, tweet and facebook for them, etc etc. In large part thanks to our activities, the people in charge of redeveloping the site (now a train station) have performed an archaeological exploratory trench - and found castle walls and a saxon brooch.[3] Don't be tempted to think that you can't make real changes without money. [1] http://www.northamptoncastle.com http://www.northamptoncastle.com I run the website, would be interested in feedback. [2] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lp6TCRc9KVo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lp6TCRc9KVo [3] http://www.northamptoncastle.com/posts/castle-station-evaluation-trench/ http://www.northamptoncastle.com/posts/castle-station-evalua...

dclowd9901 14y ago

Despite reading the entire post, I still want to be rich. That's pretty telling about how marginal all these problems sound to someone without money.

MojoJolo 14y ago

Honestly, I want to get rich. To have a stable life. To prove my self worth.

hmbg 14y ago
Your second reason is an interesting one. Winning the lottery may be nice, but I don't think it would impact my level of happiness in a big way. The confidence I'd get from selling my company for millions of dollars, that's another thing entirely. That's something I strive for.
- MojoJolo 14y ago
  You're right. Lottery is not one of my plan to get rich. Other than money. I believe getting something you strive for is really worth it. It will give you happiness.

georgelawrence 14y ago

Do this experiment: 1. Go to Google.com 2. Enter "filthy stinking" into the box 3. Notice the first autocomplete suggestion

harryh 14y ago

Flagged for linking to a site that is blatantly stealing content. Link should go to the original on Quora: http://www.quora.com/Wealth/Is-getting-rich-worth-it http://www.quora.com/Wealth/Is-getting-rich-worth-it

nobody-special 14y ago
it says so right on the box: "curaqion is a monthly curation of high quality answers from fascinating topics and questions on Quora."

jhuni 14y ago

Proletarians suffer from the four kinds of alienation Marx referred to in the Economic and Philosophic Manuscripts of 1844 (1) alienation from products (2) alienation from the act of production (3) alienation from ones own life (4) alienation from fellow laborers. The forms of alienations the bourgeoisie have to go through are not nearly as acute as the alienation of the proletariat. Perhaps the most important aspect of being as rich as a bourgeoisie is that you have a secure existence. You don't have to worry about finding a job, paying for health care, paying child support, paying rent on time so that you don't have to join the masses of homeless people living in the cold, or any of the other things ordinary people have to worry about. Having a secure existence is a major stress reliever and it makes your life better no question.

kennethologist 14y ago

This quora thread provided a great deal of illumination for me on the question "Is getting rich worth it?" http://www.quora.com/Wealth/Is-getting-rich-worth-it http://www.quora.com/Wealth/Is-getting-rich-worth-it Top answer summary: Here's my answer: being rich is better than not being rich, but it's not nearly as good as you imagine it is.

sosuke 14y ago

As much as I am working my butt off right now, if I don't get rich then it wouldn't have been worth it. When I do get rich, and for some reason I find it wasn't worth the sacrifices, then I will lie to myself about it. Humans have an amazing capacity for denial.

antirez 14y ago

Nice post but the guy completely forgot to say that over a certain level of richness you start to stop worryng about work. That for most people here means probably to work even more, but just coding what they believe is significant, when you feel with the right energy, and not what the current company / job believes it is. I believe there is a significant amount of people that every day wake up and go make something they believe it is useless, just to pay the bills. Richness can stop this massive personal sacrifice. Clarification: As you can guess I'm very happy with my current job, the problem is, I wrote useless code for many years when I started to pay my bills as a programmer. Later I created companies and I was able to escape the sadness of writing useless code. However the fear of returning into this condition is always present, especially with a loan that I used to purchase a new house, children, and so forth.

sleep4dead 14y ago
"...especially with a loan that I used to purchase a new house, children, and so forth" You used a loan to purchase children?! That is horrible!
silvestrov 14y ago
He did say it: you don't have to worry about money as much anymore, so you can quit your job at anytime because you don't need the money.
ownagefool 14y ago
I go to work every week day to do stupid stuff people want me to do it stupid ways to pay for a stupid house and stupid food in order to make sure I survive. For the area I live, I get paid reasonably well I'd say and I do it they way because they pay more than the other guy. Money offers choices. It allows people to live and work where they want and makes it a helluva lot easier to stand up for yourself or leave your job to find your passion. I currently have none of these allowances. Even without any it's plain to see how money can make it easier to be happy in life, but at the end of the day happiness is up to yourself. I'm reasonably happy without any money, but I know if I had some, I could probably make myself happier. :p
dos1 14y ago

jnbiche 14y ago

The mere suggestion that all of us middle-class schmucks are out here dreaming of an Audi or some other bling shows how out of touch he/she is with middle class America. Maybe that's the way it was in the 1980s, but now most of us in the middle class are just desperately trying to pay rising insurance bills, electricity bills, childcare, groceries, and clawing with all our might to not fall out of the middle class. I can honestly say I haven't thought about wanting money for something that wasn't an absolute necessity for a decent middle class life since my early 20s (I'm in my late 30s now). Many of us don't even dream about getting rich -- we just dream of having enough income to pay the bills. Based on my experiences, and that of my peers, middle class life around the country is changing drastically. I've watched a number of families formerly in the upper middle class fall into the mundane middle class, and middle class folks fall into the lower classes. I wonder if the boom in SV has isolated many of you from this. If that's the case, I'm sincerely glad you don't have to deal with it -- it's depressing to do well in school and work hard, only to see the dreams of a stable, secure middle-class life float away. For most of us, it's just paycheck to paycheck now.

elemenohpee 14y ago
> For most of us, it's just paycheck to paycheck now. Everything is going according to plan. When you see how perfectly all of this lines up with the interests of the plutocrats you just have to wonder to what degree it is conscious collusion. What lies do they tell themselves in the pursuit of economic power and the subsequent subjugation of the population, or have they completely dispensed with even the pretense of plebeian morality?

pg 14y ago

The next thing you need to understand about money is this: all of the things you picture buying, they are only worthwhile to you because you cannot afford them (or have to work really hard to acquire them). That was one of the biggest surprises for me. I never realized the degree to which not being able to afford certain things was what was making me want them. That childhood excitement of saving up your money to buy some coveted thing is completely gone. And without it you find you covet the thing far less. When you realize you can bring it home from the store whenever you want, you're often surprised to find yourself thinking "let them keep it there for now." Curiously, this affects people in different ways. When the excitement of e.g. buying a fancy car is diminished by 10x, some people respond by buying 10 fancy cars, and others just lose interest. I turned out to be in the latter group, and judging from what I've seen in SV, a lot of HN readers probably also would be. It's slightly sad, in the way that losing one's appetite or sexual desire might be. On the other hand, you're arguably less of a slave to people marketing luxuries, and the other things you long for might be more worth longing for.

speeder 14y ago
In 2011 my income was 30k USD. This is a truckload of money in Brazil, it is harder to get more money than that, I was a "Solutions Architect" and R&D head of a medium mobile solutions company. To me, I was bloody rich, I mean, I never had this kind of money before, my whole extended family were envious and made lots of really mean jokes (and people made lots of "jokes" asking things, obviously expecting that maybe you will buy it for them). I noticed then that many things I wanted, I decided to buy them later, for example I still don't own a single game console, because I thought: "Aaah, I will only buy PS3, and I will do it when Final Fantasy Versus get released". The most expensive thing I bought, were my glasses, because since I need them every day, it made sense to expend some more money seeking quality (I hired a good custom lensmaker and all). In fact, I did not knew what to do with my money, so I ended throwing good part of it at bitcoins (and losing it doing crazy leveraged trading). It was a time that I worked because I liked the job (by the way: when I sent the resume, I asked for 18k, I got 30k because THEY offered it, it was not me that asked!)
- jhartmann 14y ago

givan 14y ago

Is eating healthier, living in a better environment, having access to better health services etc worth it? In the capitalist system you can't have them without a non trivial amount of money.

davemel37 14y ago

This title is slightly misleading." Most of the downsides he has about being rich revolve around OTHERS KNOWING THAT HE IS RICH, and are not a product of him actually being rich. The post should be titled,"Why I Don't Want Anyone To Know When I Strike It Rich, Especially My Relatives."

andrewdubinsky 14y ago

My dad only gave me a few bits of advice, but on money he said, "Money does not buy happiness, but it does whitewash a lot of problems".

nell 14y ago

A good target would be to become a person worthy of the wealth. This is also the reason why lottery winners are said to go bust.

aj700 14y ago

My putting arguments from an explicitly European perspective always gets me in trouble here. But here I go. There may (MAY) be some Socalization [sic] going on here. I.e. Americans think this is what people do in America, therefore they must be like this everywhere. Americans might keep expecting you to give them a car as a Christmas present. Europeans would never be so materialistic as to want or expect one. Have at it. The overall TCO of a nice German car is easily $1m. So most people don't understand that 15m is only 15 cars. And I mean only. And you can't buy anything else on that hypothetical basis. Is my partner into my or my money? Maybe I DON'T know the answer to that. But I'm past caring.

cpursley 14y ago

Wealth simply amplifies who you already are.