13 ms·

This. A thousand times: this. I really feel like this really cuts to the core of the problem with "cybercrime". The fact is, most people have absolutely no un

by kyboren 14y ago

This. A thousand times: this. I really feel like this really cuts to the core of the problem with "cybercrime". The fact is, most people have absolutely no understanding of the technical details of the "crimes" most hackers carry out. Most distressingly, this seems to include public prosecutors and judges. I am not sure if this is a result of misapplied analogies, or "sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic", or something else, or some combination of the above. In any case, our biggest priority should not just be reforming the law to match a more careful and technically nuanced version of computer crime. Indeed, our greatest goal should be to expand public awareness and appreciation of what hackers are, what they do, and how they go about doing it. I intentionally use the ambiguous term, "hacker" here. Until people understand what is really going on, they will forever remain ignorant of the proper course of justice.

RyanMcGreal 14y ago
We can add the constant abuse of the terms "steal" and "theft", which make no sense when applied to the act of making a copy of a digital file.
- cobrausn 14y ago
  To play devil's advocate here... Let's say I work a full day with the understanding that I will get paid for my efforts. The employer then refuses to pay me. It would not be uncommon for someone to say that the employer 'stole' from you, or call them a 'thief'. I could also see how many people would equate that to downloading a copy of something that required effort to produce and was being offered under specific terms. I could see how arguing about the verbage, to most people, is just an exercise in pedantry and (as far as they are concerned) misses the point.
  - mattvanhorn 14y ago
    Since you cannot get your lost time back, it certainly is theft (of services). However, that is not the case at all with digital copying, where the original owner of the data is not deprived of anything. That is the real point - the idea of property is inextricably related to scarcity, which doesn't exist in the digital realm.
    - cobrausn 14y ago
      Scarcity does exist in the digital realm - only on the production side. Distribution is effectively free. Until dev/random spits out complete programs that are worth using, it needs to be taken into account that all software requires effort to produce, and giving the author(s) the ability to dictate the terms of the software use is often the only reason certain software gets made.

by kyboren 14y ago

RyanMcGreal 14y ago

We can add the constant abuse of the terms "steal" and "theft", which make no sense when applied to the act of making a copy of a digital file.

cobrausn 14y ago
To play devil's advocate here... Let's say I work a full day with the understanding that I will get paid for my efforts. The employer then refuses to pay me. It would not be uncommon for someone to say that the employer 'stole' from you, or call them a 'thief'. I could also see how many people would equate that to downloading a copy of something that required effort to produce and was being offered under specific terms. I could see how arguing about the verbage, to most people, is just an exercise in pedantry and (as far as they are concerned) misses the point.
- mattvanhorn 14y ago
  Since you cannot get your lost time back, it certainly is theft (of services). However, that is not the case at all with digital copying, where the original owner of the data is not deprived of anything. That is the real point - the idea of property is inextricably related to scarcity, which doesn't exist in the digital realm.
  - cobrausn 14y ago
    Scarcity does exist in the digital realm - only on the production side. Distribution is effectively free. Until dev/random spits out complete programs that are worth using, it needs to be taken into account that all software requires effort to produce, and giving the author(s) the ability to dictate the terms of the software use is often the only reason certain software gets made.