4 ms·

No it's not. Because I WANT spam protection... I don't want ads. Just like it's fine for an electrician to enter my house to fix a power point. It is NOT okay

by Volpe 14y ago

No it's not. Because I WANT spam protection... I don't want ads. Just like it's fine for an electrician to enter my house to fix a power point. It is NOT okay for anyone to enter my house in order to sell me random things.

StavrosK 14y ago
If you don't want it, don't use Gmail. It's not fine to call an electrician to your house to fix the power point in return for you letting them sell you random things, and then say "no, I don't want the things, I just want the fix!" It's not a breach of your privacy any more than spam filters reading your email is.
- Volpe 14y ago
  > If you don't want it, don't use Gmail. I'm pretty sure that is exactly the point Microsoft are making with this campaign. They are using the fact you can't opt out of a "feature" as an excuse to opt out of a "product". They are leveraging peoples perception of 'Privacy' to do that. Really do you think buying an Audi will mean you can kiss the girl at Prom? Or by wearing Calvin Klein you'll look amazing from every angle? ... No, Ads lie all the time... Chrome isn't technically "Faster" but they still run ads that say as much...
  - StavrosK 14y ago
    You are conflating two different issues, "I don't like seeing ads" and "algorithms reading my mail is a privacy breach". If you don't like seeing ads, I think even Gmail themselves would tell you not to use Gmail. But it's not a breach of privacy! Or are you trolling?
    - Volpe 14y ago
      I'm not conflating anything, I'm pointing our privacy was just a vehicle that was being used to deliver a message, and that message is valid: "If you don't want gmail splashing ads all over your messages, switch to outlook." No need to be a jerk about it and accuse me of trolling.
      - StavrosK 14y ago
        > I'm pointing our privacy was just a vehicle that was being used to deliver a message, and that message is valid The vehicle is not, though. There is no issue of privacy. They might as well have said "Gmail kills babies, switch to outlook", it's exactly as true (which is, to say, not at all).
        Terretta 14y ago
        You have been profiled, and the profile works over time and across content. That data exists, and is sold to advertisers. The profile is about you, including private discourse between, say, you and family, and numerous research papers have shown it ties to exactly you even if it's supposedly anonymous. This is absolutely a privacy "issue" even if it's not clear to you personally how this might be a privacy breach. That's far different than spam, where the messages are profiled, not the people exchanging them.
        StavrosK 14y ago
        There are two different ways ads can be displayed. Either the message is scanned for a topic and ads are displayed to you based on it, or they build a profile about you, like you described. You can opt out of that: https://www.google.com/settings/u/0/ads/preferences/?hl=en https://www.google.com/settings/u/0/ads/preferences/?hl=en
kevinfat 14y ago
That's not a privacy issue. That's a I don't want feature X (ads) issue.
gavinflud 14y ago
Unfortunately for you, you can't pick and choose what you want when Google are providing you with a free email service. Generating personalized ads is how they make money from this venture. As the saying goes: "If you're not paying for it; You're the product, not the customer."
- lvh 14y ago
  Actually, you can. Despite what the website says, you can opt out of personalized advertising: https://www.google.com/settings/u/0/ads/preferences/?hl=en#optout https://www.google.com/settings/u/0/ads/preferences/?hl=en#o...
muro 14y ago
You can pay for gmail and have no ads: http://support.google.com/a/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=60758 http://support.google.com/a/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=6...
- UnoriginalGuy 14y ago
  Here is perhaps a better link: http://www.google.com/enterprise/apps/business/pricing.html http://www.google.com/enterprise/apps/business/pricing.html In general Google Apps is a great product for small-medium sized businesses. As is Office 365.
  - freehunter 14y ago
    Google is horrible for a company's IT security team though. Very difficult to lock things down from a firewall level when Google won't tell you the IP addresses individual apps run on (say if I want to allow Google Hangouts but not Chrome Remote Desktop), and some of their apps won't work properly through a proxy or VPN. There's enough cases where Google has been unable/unwilling to help configure that someone could easily begin to question their value. Google seemingly doesn't want you to allow access to one thing but not another; it's an all or nothing proposition. Their heavy use of load-balancing exacerbates this issue.
    - vetinari 14y ago
      "You are doing it wrong". You do not lock the apps by IP, because they run on many different machines in different data centers. What is running on specific machine is dynamic, based on momentary requirements. If you do not want to allow Google Hangouts, use your administrator console.
      - freehunter 14y ago
        It's not quite that simple due to the VPN and proxy configurations we have. Google Hangouts just will not work over a VPN unless it's allowed directly through the firewall, which requires a firewall rule. Typically firewall rules are based on IP addresses and ports. Allowed Google Hangouts (which we want) also has the side effect of allowing Chrome Remote Desktop (which we don't want) directly through the firewall. "You are doing it wrong" is not an acceptable answer in an enterprise environment unless the vendor is willing to work with their customers to make sure it's possible to actually do it right. But that would mean the vendor would need real customer service...

by Volpe 14y ago

StavrosK 14y ago

If you don't want it, don't use Gmail. It's not fine to call an electrician to your house to fix the power point in return for you letting them sell you random things, and then say "no, I don't want the things, I just want the fix!" It's not a breach of your privacy any more than spam filters reading your email is.

Volpe 14y ago
> If you don't want it, don't use Gmail. I'm pretty sure that is exactly the point Microsoft are making with this campaign. They are using the fact you can't opt out of a "feature" as an excuse to opt out of a "product". They are leveraging peoples perception of 'Privacy' to do that. Really do you think buying an Audi will mean you can kiss the girl at Prom? Or by wearing Calvin Klein you'll look amazing from every angle? ... No, Ads lie all the time... Chrome isn't technically "Faster" but they still run ads that say as much...
- StavrosK 14y ago
  You are conflating two different issues, "I don't like seeing ads" and "algorithms reading my mail is a privacy breach". If you don't like seeing ads, I think even Gmail themselves would tell you not to use Gmail. But it's not a breach of privacy! Or are you trolling?
  - Volpe 14y ago
    I'm not conflating anything, I'm pointing our privacy was just a vehicle that was being used to deliver a message, and that message is valid: "If you don't want gmail splashing ads all over your messages, switch to outlook." No need to be a jerk about it and accuse me of trolling.
    - StavrosK 14y ago
      > I'm pointing our privacy was just a vehicle that was being used to deliver a message, and that message is valid The vehicle is not, though. There is no issue of privacy. They might as well have said "Gmail kills babies, switch to outlook", it's exactly as true (which is, to say, not at all).
      - Terretta 14y ago
        You have been profiled, and the profile works over time and across content. That data exists, and is sold to advertisers. The profile is about you, including private discourse between, say, you and family, and numerous research papers have shown it ties to exactly you even if it's supposedly anonymous. This is absolutely a privacy "issue" even if it's not clear to you personally how this might be a privacy breach. That's far different than spam, where the messages are profiled, not the people exchanging them.
        StavrosK 14y ago
        There are two different ways ads can be displayed. Either the message is scanned for a topic and ads are displayed to you based on it, or they build a profile about you, like you described. You can opt out of that: https://www.google.com/settings/u/0/ads/preferences/?hl=en https://www.google.com/settings/u/0/ads/preferences/?hl=en

kevinfat 14y ago

That's not a privacy issue. That's a I don't want feature X (ads) issue.

gavinflud 14y ago

Unfortunately for you, you can't pick and choose what you want when Google are providing you with a free email service. Generating personalized ads is how they make money from this venture. As the saying goes: "If you're not paying for it; You're the product, not the customer."

lvh 14y ago
Actually, you can. Despite what the website says, you can opt out of personalized advertising: https://www.google.com/settings/u/0/ads/preferences/?hl=en#optout https://www.google.com/settings/u/0/ads/preferences/?hl=en#o...

muro 14y ago

You can pay for gmail and have no ads: http://support.google.com/a/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=60758 http://support.google.com/a/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=6...

UnoriginalGuy 14y ago
Here is perhaps a better link: http://www.google.com/enterprise/apps/business/pricing.html http://www.google.com/enterprise/apps/business/pricing.html In general Google Apps is a great product for small-medium sized businesses. As is Office 365.
- freehunter 14y ago
  Google is horrible for a company's IT security team though. Very difficult to lock things down from a firewall level when Google won't tell you the IP addresses individual apps run on (say if I want to allow Google Hangouts but not Chrome Remote Desktop), and some of their apps won't work properly through a proxy or VPN. There's enough cases where Google has been unable/unwilling to help configure that someone could easily begin to question their value. Google seemingly doesn't want you to allow access to one thing but not another; it's an all or nothing proposition. Their heavy use of load-balancing exacerbates this issue.
  - vetinari 14y ago
    "You are doing it wrong". You do not lock the apps by IP, because they run on many different machines in different data centers. What is running on specific machine is dynamic, based on momentary requirements. If you do not want to allow Google Hangouts, use your administrator console.
    - freehunter 14y ago
      It's not quite that simple due to the VPN and proxy configurations we have. Google Hangouts just will not work over a VPN unless it's allowed directly through the firewall, which requires a firewall rule. Typically firewall rules are based on IP addresses and ports. Allowed Google Hangouts (which we want) also has the side effect of allowing Chrome Remote Desktop (which we don't want) directly through the firewall. "You are doing it wrong" is not an acceptable answer in an enterprise environment unless the vendor is willing to work with their customers to make sure it's possible to actually do it right. But that would mean the vendor would need real customer service...