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>"Let's see you fight your way out of being an AIDS infected baby born somewhere in Sudan." Oh I certainly agree with you that there are people born in terribl

>"Let's see you fight your way out of being an AIDS infected baby born somewhere in Sudan." Oh I certainly agree with you that there are people born in terrible circumstances, much worse than anything I will ever experience! But I fear you are setting up something of a straw man by picking out the worst case scenario. The truth is that people are born into a range of circumstances some of which are easier to work with than others. But being dedicated to doing the best with what you have is important if you want to get anywhere in life. I know that good choices and the willingness to tolerate a lot of pain can send you out of the rural south to a tech job in California given enough time. And I know that bad choices and shortsightedness mean you are living off government benefits in a skeezy trailer park, a parent before the age of 20, and never leaving your home state. I do count my blessings. And I know there are some circumstances which I would not be able to overcome. But I can't believe that a person has no agency in his life. You seem convinced of your position. I wonder what evidence convinced you of it? (And I often find racial stereotypes to be numerically ignorant. The complete distribution is not described by the mean or the outliers.)

confluence 14y ago
Funny. I think we might agree on our life philosophy in some ways. See my comment here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5180718 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5180718 I just want to make it clear - one should not attribute one's success to one's own hard work. Nor should one blame one's failures solely on oneself. Both make the fundamental attribution error. > And I know that bad choices and shortsightedness mean you are living off government benefits in a skeezy trailer park, a parent before the age of 20, and never leaving your home state. Being born in that area is a strong predictor of ending up in that skeezy trailer park. I don't particularly blame them from ending up there. No different to poor Africans really.
- theraccoundude 14y ago
  Your other comment said that you try to make sure you don't attribute any of your success to your own hard work and study. Um, what does that even mean? You think the actions and mindset of the individual have absolutely zero effect on the outcome? As an experiment, why don't you try completely eliminating that variable and just stop trying, to see if it has no effect on where you go. Not only that, but how do you account for two people who are born in roughly symmetrical situations who go on to have completely different outcomes? While I like the part of your philosophy that acknowledges grace and appreciation for what you've been given, I think it's a bit absurd to remove yourSELF from the equation of where you're going, unless you have some massive guilt-complex that follows you around biting you in your own ass and this somehow alleviates it.
  - confluence 14y ago
    > Um, what does that even mean? I couldn't do that hard work and study without immense privilege afforded to me by my environment. That's the point. > You think the actions and mindset of the individual have absolutely zero effect on the outcome Your environment is the major determinant on your possible actions and mindset.
    - theraccoundude 14y ago
      Okay, so you appreciate that your environment has played a role in where you are and where your going. That's valuable to acknowledge and - as an egoic and often delusional species -sometimes we lose track of that. But all your comments seem to reflect that you think the agent plays zero role in it's own outcome. Or, if you have refined it to a more plausible second point, what evidence can you provide me that the environment plays more of a role than the agent. If you want to start talking philosophy and determinism, then I'm happy to, but I really urge you to start making some really bad decisions to see how much effect your actions make. Seriously, stop wearing a seat belt, start yelling at every person you meet and being hostile to them, stop wearing clothes in public, stop working or taking any risks whatsoever, stop applying yourself to anything you love, go drink a handle of whiskey every night, completely stop exercising, play WOW for 18 hours a day, don't study philosophy, be close minded, tell yourself you hate yourself everyday. Just stop evaluating the effects of any decisions you make whatsoever. Seriously, lose all ownership, after all, the environment is the major determinant of what happens to you, so it literally doesn't matter if you decide to do these things. What've you got to lose?
      - confluence 14y ago
        > stop wearing a seat belt, start yelling at every person you meet and being hostile to them, stop wearing clothes in public, stop working or taking any risks whatsoever, stop applying yourself to anything you love, go drink a handle of whiskey every night, completely stop exercising, play WOW for 18 hours a day, don't study philosophy, be close minded, tell yourself you hate yourself everyday My environment has disincentivized me from such behaviour - either by law or upbringing. Hence I don't partake in it. I'm sure if my environment was different - I would act differently. If I was brought up by a drug addict, there is a high likelihood I would also become one. If I was brought up poor - I'd likely stay poor (due to structural factors). The point is the environment predetermined my values and actions.

confluence 14y ago

Funny. I think we might agree on our life philosophy in some ways. See my comment here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5180718 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5180718 I just want to make it clear - one should not attribute one's success to one's own hard work. Nor should one blame one's failures solely on oneself. Both make the fundamental attribution error. > And I know that bad choices and shortsightedness mean you are living off government benefits in a skeezy trailer park, a parent before the age of 20, and never leaving your home state. Being born in that area is a strong predictor of ending up in that skeezy trailer park. I don't particularly blame them from ending up there. No different to poor Africans really.

theraccoundude 14y ago
Your other comment said that you try to make sure you don't attribute any of your success to your own hard work and study. Um, what does that even mean? You think the actions and mindset of the individual have absolutely zero effect on the outcome? As an experiment, why don't you try completely eliminating that variable and just stop trying, to see if it has no effect on where you go. Not only that, but how do you account for two people who are born in roughly symmetrical situations who go on to have completely different outcomes? While I like the part of your philosophy that acknowledges grace and appreciation for what you've been given, I think it's a bit absurd to remove yourSELF from the equation of where you're going, unless you have some massive guilt-complex that follows you around biting you in your own ass and this somehow alleviates it.
- confluence 14y ago
  > Um, what does that even mean? I couldn't do that hard work and study without immense privilege afforded to me by my environment. That's the point. > You think the actions and mindset of the individual have absolutely zero effect on the outcome Your environment is the major determinant on your possible actions and mindset.
  - theraccoundude 14y ago
    Okay, so you appreciate that your environment has played a role in where you are and where your going. That's valuable to acknowledge and - as an egoic and often delusional species -sometimes we lose track of that. But all your comments seem to reflect that you think the agent plays zero role in it's own outcome. Or, if you have refined it to a more plausible second point, what evidence can you provide me that the environment plays more of a role than the agent. If you want to start talking philosophy and determinism, then I'm happy to, but I really urge you to start making some really bad decisions to see how much effect your actions make. Seriously, stop wearing a seat belt, start yelling at every person you meet and being hostile to them, stop wearing clothes in public, stop working or taking any risks whatsoever, stop applying yourself to anything you love, go drink a handle of whiskey every night, completely stop exercising, play WOW for 18 hours a day, don't study philosophy, be close minded, tell yourself you hate yourself everyday. Just stop evaluating the effects of any decisions you make whatsoever. Seriously, lose all ownership, after all, the environment is the major determinant of what happens to you, so it literally doesn't matter if you decide to do these things. What've you got to lose?
    - confluence 14y ago
      > stop wearing a seat belt, start yelling at every person you meet and being hostile to them, stop wearing clothes in public, stop working or taking any risks whatsoever, stop applying yourself to anything you love, go drink a handle of whiskey every night, completely stop exercising, play WOW for 18 hours a day, don't study philosophy, be close minded, tell yourself you hate yourself everyday My environment has disincentivized me from such behaviour - either by law or upbringing. Hence I don't partake in it. I'm sure if my environment was different - I would act differently. If I was brought up by a drug addict, there is a high likelihood I would also become one. If I was brought up poor - I'd likely stay poor (due to structural factors). The point is the environment predetermined my values and actions.