4 ms·

Are you male, white and born in America? Sounds pretty lucky to me. But then again - you probably can't see past your own ego (fundamental attribution error FT

Are you male, white and born in America? Sounds pretty lucky to me. But then again - you probably can't see past your own ego (fundamental attribution error FTW). Let's see you fight your way out of being an AIDS infected baby born somewhere in Sudan. > I see people from similar backgrounds achieving very different outcomes in life Similar backgrounds. Different outcomes. Take the delta - you get luck. > I fear that it has a poisonous cultural effect Ah yes - attributing success to oneself is soooo much healthier. > You are telling all the would-be strivers in the world "Give up. You lost the lottery at birth. What will happen will happen". Straw man. Never said that. Only indicated that your success is dictated to you by both your environment and your DNA. > Yes, the reality is that some of them will never make it s/some/most/g > privileged people tell the world that success is all luck You are privileged - but you obviously can't see that (how many people have access to safe water again?). It's to your own benefit that you attribute success to yourself.

jacoblyles 14y ago
>"Let's see you fight your way out of being an AIDS infected baby born somewhere in Sudan." Oh I certainly agree with you that there are people born in terrible circumstances, much worse than anything I will ever experience! But I fear you are setting up something of a straw man by picking out the worst case scenario. The truth is that people are born into a range of circumstances some of which are easier to work with than others. But being dedicated to doing the best with what you have is important if you want to get anywhere in life. I know that good choices and the willingness to tolerate a lot of pain can send you out of the rural south to a tech job in California given enough time. And I know that bad choices and shortsightedness mean you are living off government benefits in a skeezy trailer park, a parent before the age of 20, and never leaving your home state. I do count my blessings. And I know there are some circumstances which I would not be able to overcome. But I can't believe that a person has no agency in his life. You seem convinced of your position. I wonder what evidence convinced you of it? (And I often find racial stereotypes to be numerically ignorant. The complete distribution is not described by the mean or the outliers.)
- confluence 14y ago
  Funny. I think we might agree on our life philosophy in some ways. See my comment here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5180718 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5180718 I just want to make it clear - one should not attribute one's success to one's own hard work. Nor should one blame one's failures solely on oneself. Both make the fundamental attribution error. > And I know that bad choices and shortsightedness mean you are living off government benefits in a skeezy trailer park, a parent before the age of 20, and never leaving your home state. Being born in that area is a strong predictor of ending up in that skeezy trailer park. I don't particularly blame them from ending up there. No different to poor Africans really.
  - theraccoundude 14y ago
    Your other comment said that you try to make sure you don't attribute any of your success to your own hard work and study. Um, what does that even mean? You think the actions and mindset of the individual have absolutely zero effect on the outcome? As an experiment, why don't you try completely eliminating that variable and just stop trying, to see if it has no effect on where you go. Not only that, but how do you account for two people who are born in roughly symmetrical situations who go on to have completely different outcomes? While I like the part of your philosophy that acknowledges grace and appreciation for what you've been given, I think it's a bit absurd to remove yourSELF from the equation of where you're going, unless you have some massive guilt-complex that follows you around biting you in your own ass and this somehow alleviates it.
    - confluence 14y ago
      > Um, what does that even mean? I couldn't do that hard work and study without immense privilege afforded to me by my environment. That's the point. > You think the actions and mindset of the individual have absolutely zero effect on the outcome Your environment is the major determinant on your possible actions and mindset.
      - theraccoundude 14y ago
dkrich 14y ago
So why not control the discussion for the role luck plays for white males born in the U.S. between 1950 and 2010? It's obvious that factors outside our control are major factors in what we can accomplish in our lives, but that doesn't mean that within a controlled group the question of luck vs agency shouldn't be examined.
- confluence 14y ago
  You can't control for luck.

jacoblyles 14y ago

>"Let's see you fight your way out of being an AIDS infected baby born somewhere in Sudan." Oh I certainly agree with you that there are people born in terrible circumstances, much worse than anything I will ever experience! But I fear you are setting up something of a straw man by picking out the worst case scenario. The truth is that people are born into a range of circumstances some of which are easier to work with than others. But being dedicated to doing the best with what you have is important if you want to get anywhere in life. I know that good choices and the willingness to tolerate a lot of pain can send you out of the rural south to a tech job in California given enough time. And I know that bad choices and shortsightedness mean you are living off government benefits in a skeezy trailer park, a parent before the age of 20, and never leaving your home state. I do count my blessings. And I know there are some circumstances which I would not be able to overcome. But I can't believe that a person has no agency in his life. You seem convinced of your position. I wonder what evidence convinced you of it? (And I often find racial stereotypes to be numerically ignorant. The complete distribution is not described by the mean or the outliers.)

confluence 14y ago
Funny. I think we might agree on our life philosophy in some ways. See my comment here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5180718 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5180718 I just want to make it clear - one should not attribute one's success to one's own hard work. Nor should one blame one's failures solely on oneself. Both make the fundamental attribution error. > And I know that bad choices and shortsightedness mean you are living off government benefits in a skeezy trailer park, a parent before the age of 20, and never leaving your home state. Being born in that area is a strong predictor of ending up in that skeezy trailer park. I don't particularly blame them from ending up there. No different to poor Africans really.
- theraccoundude 14y ago
  Your other comment said that you try to make sure you don't attribute any of your success to your own hard work and study. Um, what does that even mean? You think the actions and mindset of the individual have absolutely zero effect on the outcome? As an experiment, why don't you try completely eliminating that variable and just stop trying, to see if it has no effect on where you go. Not only that, but how do you account for two people who are born in roughly symmetrical situations who go on to have completely different outcomes? While I like the part of your philosophy that acknowledges grace and appreciation for what you've been given, I think it's a bit absurd to remove yourSELF from the equation of where you're going, unless you have some massive guilt-complex that follows you around biting you in your own ass and this somehow alleviates it.
  - confluence 14y ago
    > Um, what does that even mean? I couldn't do that hard work and study without immense privilege afforded to me by my environment. That's the point. > You think the actions and mindset of the individual have absolutely zero effect on the outcome Your environment is the major determinant on your possible actions and mindset.
    - theraccoundude 14y ago

dkrich 14y ago

So why not control the discussion for the role luck plays for white males born in the U.S. between 1950 and 2010? It's obvious that factors outside our control are major factors in what we can accomplish in our lives, but that doesn't mean that within a controlled group the question of luck vs agency shouldn't be examined.

confluence 14y ago
You can't control for luck.