3 ms·

Here's why environment is important. Random man from environment picks up gun and shoots you point blank without warning. Agency your way out of that little pi

Here's why environment is important. Random man from environment picks up gun and shoots you point blank without warning. Agency your way out of that little pickle. Or how about - you're a black woman in the year 1900. I'm sorry did you have a future? The amount of things I can list here are endless. You might even be 1 in a million. Too bad there are 1000s of other just like you. You are the least important factor in your success.

jacoblyles 14y ago
I see people from similar backgrounds achieving very different outcomes in life. Myself, I come from a poor rural area that many people of my peer group did not escape. I'm proud of my life today, though it is not perfect. I can say it was damned hard to get here and I am happy to be here. What role did agency play in separating my more successful peers from the ones at home in their parents' trailers with no meaningful occupation, often accompanied by unplanned children and drug problems? I think it is greater than 0%. I honestly believe that you have to be born into privilege to believe something like "You are the least important factor in your success". I cannot believe it after seeing what I have seen. Moreover, when privileged people tell the world that success is all luck, I fear that it has a poisonous cultural effect. You are telling all the would-be strivers in the world "Give up. You lost the lottery at birth. What will happen will happen". I tell them "Fight harder! You'll make it! Keep trying!". Yes, the reality is that some of them will never make it. But if they fail, they'll fail with dignity and self-respect. That's worth something.
- confluence 14y ago
  Are you male, white and born in America? Sounds pretty lucky to me. But then again - you probably can't see past your own ego (fundamental attribution error FTW). Let's see you fight your way out of being an AIDS infected baby born somewhere in Sudan. > I see people from similar backgrounds achieving very different outcomes in life Similar backgrounds. Different outcomes. Take the delta - you get luck. > I fear that it has a poisonous cultural effect Ah yes - attributing success to oneself is soooo much healthier. > You are telling all the would-be strivers in the world "Give up. You lost the lottery at birth. What will happen will happen". Straw man. Never said that. Only indicated that your success is dictated to you by both your environment and your DNA. > Yes, the reality is that some of them will never make it s/some/most/g > privileged people tell the world that success is all luck You are privileged - but you obviously can't see that (how many people have access to safe water again?). It's to your own benefit that you attribute success to yourself.
  - jacoblyles 14y ago
    >"Let's see you fight your way out of being an AIDS infected baby born somewhere in Sudan." Oh I certainly agree with you that there are people born in terrible circumstances, much worse than anything I will ever experience! But I fear you are setting up something of a straw man by picking out the worst case scenario. The truth is that people are born into a range of circumstances some of which are easier to work with than others. But being dedicated to doing the best with what you have is important if you want to get anywhere in life. I know that good choices and the willingness to tolerate a lot of pain can send you out of the rural south to a tech job in California given enough time. And I know that bad choices and shortsightedness mean you are living off government benefits in a skeezy trailer park, a parent before the age of 20, and never leaving your home state. I do count my blessings. And I know there are some circumstances which I would not be able to overcome. But I can't believe that a person has no agency in his life. You seem convinced of your position. I wonder what evidence convinced you of it? (And I often find racial stereotypes to be numerically ignorant. The complete distribution is not described by the mean or the outliers.)
    - confluence 14y ago
      Funny. I think we might agree on our life philosophy in some ways. See my comment here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5180718 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5180718 I just want to make it clear - one should not attribute one's success to one's own hard work. Nor should one blame one's failures solely on oneself. Both make the fundamental attribution error. > And I know that bad choices and shortsightedness mean you are living off government benefits in a skeezy trailer park, a parent before the age of 20, and never leaving your home state. Being born in that area is a strong predictor of ending up in that skeezy trailer park. I don't particularly blame them from ending up there. No different to poor Africans really.
      - theraccoundude 14y ago
        Your other comment said that you try to make sure you don't attribute any of your success to your own hard work and study. Um, what does that even mean? You think the actions and mindset of the individual have absolutely zero effect on the outcome? As an experiment, why don't you try completely eliminating that variable and just stop trying, to see if it has no effect on where you go. Not only that, but how do you account for two people who are born in roughly symmetrical situations who go on to have completely different outcomes? While I like the part of your philosophy that acknowledges grace and appreciation for what you've been given, I think it's a bit absurd to remove yourSELF from the equation of where you're going, unless you have some massive guilt-complex that follows you around biting you in your own ass and this somehow alleviates it.
- benched 14y ago
  Oh, striving is certainly necessary to succeed at all. But empirically, things still seem to be zero sum. Out of a group of people with dreams and motivation, some will connect up with opportunities to express and manifest them, and some will not. There are gatekeepers everywhere, in every institution, at every level, in every sphere. I've experienced dire poverty and luxuriant affluence, in cycles, multiple times. Yet I've always been the same person. Always smart, motivated, and hard-working. Sometimes the right series of gatekeepers says "Yes, welcome aboard," in series, and it rains. Other times, they say no. If you've experienced a lot of 'yes' lately, it always seems like it was due to all that perseverance. And if you've had a run of 'no thanks,' it'll seem like your luck has turned.

jacoblyles 14y ago

I see people from similar backgrounds achieving very different outcomes in life. Myself, I come from a poor rural area that many people of my peer group did not escape. I'm proud of my life today, though it is not perfect. I can say it was damned hard to get here and I am happy to be here. What role did agency play in separating my more successful peers from the ones at home in their parents' trailers with no meaningful occupation, often accompanied by unplanned children and drug problems? I think it is greater than 0%. I honestly believe that you have to be born into privilege to believe something like "You are the least important factor in your success". I cannot believe it after seeing what I have seen. Moreover, when privileged people tell the world that success is all luck, I fear that it has a poisonous cultural effect. You are telling all the would-be strivers in the world "Give up. You lost the lottery at birth. What will happen will happen". I tell them "Fight harder! You'll make it! Keep trying!". Yes, the reality is that some of them will never make it. But if they fail, they'll fail with dignity and self-respect. That's worth something.

confluence 14y ago
Are you male, white and born in America? Sounds pretty lucky to me. But then again - you probably can't see past your own ego (fundamental attribution error FTW). Let's see you fight your way out of being an AIDS infected baby born somewhere in Sudan. > I see people from similar backgrounds achieving very different outcomes in life Similar backgrounds. Different outcomes. Take the delta - you get luck. > I fear that it has a poisonous cultural effect Ah yes - attributing success to oneself is soooo much healthier. > You are telling all the would-be strivers in the world "Give up. You lost the lottery at birth. What will happen will happen". Straw man. Never said that. Only indicated that your success is dictated to you by both your environment and your DNA. > Yes, the reality is that some of them will never make it s/some/most/g > privileged people tell the world that success is all luck You are privileged - but you obviously can't see that (how many people have access to safe water again?). It's to your own benefit that you attribute success to yourself.
- jacoblyles 14y ago
  >"Let's see you fight your way out of being an AIDS infected baby born somewhere in Sudan." Oh I certainly agree with you that there are people born in terrible circumstances, much worse than anything I will ever experience! But I fear you are setting up something of a straw man by picking out the worst case scenario. The truth is that people are born into a range of circumstances some of which are easier to work with than others. But being dedicated to doing the best with what you have is important if you want to get anywhere in life. I know that good choices and the willingness to tolerate a lot of pain can send you out of the rural south to a tech job in California given enough time. And I know that bad choices and shortsightedness mean you are living off government benefits in a skeezy trailer park, a parent before the age of 20, and never leaving your home state. I do count my blessings. And I know there are some circumstances which I would not be able to overcome. But I can't believe that a person has no agency in his life. You seem convinced of your position. I wonder what evidence convinced you of it? (And I often find racial stereotypes to be numerically ignorant. The complete distribution is not described by the mean or the outliers.)
  - confluence 14y ago
    Funny. I think we might agree on our life philosophy in some ways. See my comment here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5180718 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5180718 I just want to make it clear - one should not attribute one's success to one's own hard work. Nor should one blame one's failures solely on oneself. Both make the fundamental attribution error. > And I know that bad choices and shortsightedness mean you are living off government benefits in a skeezy trailer park, a parent before the age of 20, and never leaving your home state. Being born in that area is a strong predictor of ending up in that skeezy trailer park. I don't particularly blame them from ending up there. No different to poor Africans really.
    - theraccoundude 14y ago
      Your other comment said that you try to make sure you don't attribute any of your success to your own hard work and study. Um, what does that even mean? You think the actions and mindset of the individual have absolutely zero effect on the outcome? As an experiment, why don't you try completely eliminating that variable and just stop trying, to see if it has no effect on where you go. Not only that, but how do you account for two people who are born in roughly symmetrical situations who go on to have completely different outcomes? While I like the part of your philosophy that acknowledges grace and appreciation for what you've been given, I think it's a bit absurd to remove yourSELF from the equation of where you're going, unless you have some massive guilt-complex that follows you around biting you in your own ass and this somehow alleviates it.
benched 14y ago
Oh, striving is certainly necessary to succeed at all. But empirically, things still seem to be zero sum. Out of a group of people with dreams and motivation, some will connect up with opportunities to express and manifest them, and some will not. There are gatekeepers everywhere, in every institution, at every level, in every sphere. I've experienced dire poverty and luxuriant affluence, in cycles, multiple times. Yet I've always been the same person. Always smart, motivated, and hard-working. Sometimes the right series of gatekeepers says "Yes, welcome aboard," in series, and it rains. Other times, they say no. If you've experienced a lot of 'yes' lately, it always seems like it was due to all that perseverance. And if you've had a run of 'no thanks,' it'll seem like your luck has turned.