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Life's course can be explained by agency and environment. We all know environment, including luck, is important. But what motivates people to write agency out o

Life's course can be explained by agency and environment. We all know environment, including luck, is important. But what motivates people to write agency out of the picture? Agency is what makes us distinctly human. Perhaps by belittling agency, people feel better about their own disappointments?

confluence 14y ago
Here's why environment is important. Random man from environment picks up gun and shoots you point blank without warning. Agency your way out of that little pickle. Or how about - you're a black woman in the year 1900. I'm sorry did you have a future? The amount of things I can list here are endless. You might even be 1 in a million. Too bad there are 1000s of other just like you. You are the least important factor in your success.
- jacoblyles 14y ago
  I see people from similar backgrounds achieving very different outcomes in life. Myself, I come from a poor rural area that many people of my peer group did not escape. I'm proud of my life today, though it is not perfect. I can say it was damned hard to get here and I am happy to be here. What role did agency play in separating my more successful peers from the ones at home in their parents' trailers with no meaningful occupation, often accompanied by unplanned children and drug problems? I think it is greater than 0%. I honestly believe that you have to be born into privilege to believe something like "You are the least important factor in your success". I cannot believe it after seeing what I have seen. Moreover, when privileged people tell the world that success is all luck, I fear that it has a poisonous cultural effect. You are telling all the would-be strivers in the world "Give up. You lost the lottery at birth. What will happen will happen". I tell them "Fight harder! You'll make it! Keep trying!". Yes, the reality is that some of them will never make it. But if they fail, they'll fail with dignity and self-respect. That's worth something.
  - confluence 14y ago
    Are you male, white and born in America? Sounds pretty lucky to me. But then again - you probably can't see past your own ego (fundamental attribution error FTW). Let's see you fight your way out of being an AIDS infected baby born somewhere in Sudan. > I see people from similar backgrounds achieving very different outcomes in life Similar backgrounds. Different outcomes. Take the delta - you get luck. > I fear that it has a poisonous cultural effect Ah yes - attributing success to oneself is soooo much healthier. > You are telling all the would-be strivers in the world "Give up. You lost the lottery at birth. What will happen will happen". Straw man. Never said that. Only indicated that your success is dictated to you by both your environment and your DNA. > Yes, the reality is that some of them will never make it s/some/most/g > privileged people tell the world that success is all luck You are privileged - but you obviously can't see that (how many people have access to safe water again?). It's to your own benefit that you attribute success to yourself.
    - jacoblyles 14y ago
      >"Let's see you fight your way out of being an AIDS infected baby born somewhere in Sudan." Oh I certainly agree with you that there are people born in terrible circumstances, much worse than anything I will ever experience! But I fear you are setting up something of a straw man by picking out the worst case scenario. The truth is that people are born into a range of circumstances some of which are easier to work with than others. But being dedicated to doing the best with what you have is important if you want to get anywhere in life. I know that good choices and the willingness to tolerate a lot of pain can send you out of the rural south to a tech job in California given enough time. And I know that bad choices and shortsightedness mean you are living off government benefits in a skeezy trailer park, a parent before the age of 20, and never leaving your home state. I do count my blessings. And I know there are some circumstances which I would not be able to overcome. But I can't believe that a person has no agency in his life. You seem convinced of your position. I wonder what evidence convinced you of it? (And I often find racial stereotypes to be numerically ignorant. The complete distribution is not described by the mean or the outliers.)
      - 14y ago

confluence 14y ago

Here's why environment is important. Random man from environment picks up gun and shoots you point blank without warning. Agency your way out of that little pickle. Or how about - you're a black woman in the year 1900. I'm sorry did you have a future? The amount of things I can list here are endless. You might even be 1 in a million. Too bad there are 1000s of other just like you. You are the least important factor in your success.

jacoblyles 14y ago
I see people from similar backgrounds achieving very different outcomes in life. Myself, I come from a poor rural area that many people of my peer group did not escape. I'm proud of my life today, though it is not perfect. I can say it was damned hard to get here and I am happy to be here. What role did agency play in separating my more successful peers from the ones at home in their parents' trailers with no meaningful occupation, often accompanied by unplanned children and drug problems? I think it is greater than 0%. I honestly believe that you have to be born into privilege to believe something like "You are the least important factor in your success". I cannot believe it after seeing what I have seen. Moreover, when privileged people tell the world that success is all luck, I fear that it has a poisonous cultural effect. You are telling all the would-be strivers in the world "Give up. You lost the lottery at birth. What will happen will happen". I tell them "Fight harder! You'll make it! Keep trying!". Yes, the reality is that some of them will never make it. But if they fail, they'll fail with dignity and self-respect. That's worth something.
- confluence 14y ago
  Are you male, white and born in America? Sounds pretty lucky to me. But then again - you probably can't see past your own ego (fundamental attribution error FTW). Let's see you fight your way out of being an AIDS infected baby born somewhere in Sudan. > I see people from similar backgrounds achieving very different outcomes in life Similar backgrounds. Different outcomes. Take the delta - you get luck. > I fear that it has a poisonous cultural effect Ah yes - attributing success to oneself is soooo much healthier. > You are telling all the would-be strivers in the world "Give up. You lost the lottery at birth. What will happen will happen". Straw man. Never said that. Only indicated that your success is dictated to you by both your environment and your DNA. > Yes, the reality is that some of them will never make it s/some/most/g > privileged people tell the world that success is all luck You are privileged - but you obviously can't see that (how many people have access to safe water again?). It's to your own benefit that you attribute success to yourself.
  - jacoblyles 14y ago
    >"Let's see you fight your way out of being an AIDS infected baby born somewhere in Sudan." Oh I certainly agree with you that there are people born in terrible circumstances, much worse than anything I will ever experience! But I fear you are setting up something of a straw man by picking out the worst case scenario. The truth is that people are born into a range of circumstances some of which are easier to work with than others. But being dedicated to doing the best with what you have is important if you want to get anywhere in life. I know that good choices and the willingness to tolerate a lot of pain can send you out of the rural south to a tech job in California given enough time. And I know that bad choices and shortsightedness mean you are living off government benefits in a skeezy trailer park, a parent before the age of 20, and never leaving your home state. I do count my blessings. And I know there are some circumstances which I would not be able to overcome. But I can't believe that a person has no agency in his life. You seem convinced of your position. I wonder what evidence convinced you of it? (And I often find racial stereotypes to be numerically ignorant. The complete distribution is not described by the mean or the outliers.)
    - 14y ago