5 ms·

So if a company ever messes up then they're doomed to endlessly flounder? Hey, you remember the Apple Lisa?

by jmduke 14y ago

freehunter 14y ago
You've just described how many on HN view Windows Phone. It doesn't matter how good it is, remember how bad it used to be?
- druiid 14y ago
  And I'd say that's a bit sad. As someone whom uses the WP platform I have to say as far as software goes, MS really developed a great product. Everything just WORKS, whereas with my Android phone it ends up being the platform to 'tinker' with because things randomly crash, or run slow, etc. In my experience WP has been well integrated and there's not really any need to tinker with anything (which I suppose some don't like, but for me I just want my phone to work).
  - freehunter 14y ago
    That's been my experience with WP7 and WP8. It's the platform where you don't need any apps. Everything you expect a smartphone to do comes baked in. The default featureset is quite impressive. Any extra apps are just that, extras. The problem is in getting people to give it a fair go. I hear a lot of iOS and Android complaints that don't exist on WP, and when I bring it up people just laugh.
    - eropple 14y ago
      Honestly? I'd like to like Windows Phone. I really would. I'm not much of a partisan--I switched from iOS to Android not that long ago and still write code for both. But I laugh at Windows Phone 8 because of Windows Phone 7. I simply do not trust Microsoft to not abandon its users again (and as a former XNA user, I distrust them there too).
      - freehunter 14y ago
        You honestly can't understand the reason for switching from CE to NT? You honestly expect them to abandon NT for Windows Phone 9? Even still, it's not like Windows Phone 7 users are just up and fucked, they're still receiving updates (like WP7.8). That's good for people who bought into the platform less than two years before WP8 came out; they're not left in the cold. Their apps still work, they can still install many of the new apps coming out, and when they do upgrade (almost all of) their already-purchased apps still work. It's not that Microsoft made a hard cut off and left WP7 users for dead, they're just not providing an OS upgrade from WP7 to WP8. Everything else still works like an incremental upgrade. Windows Phone 7 still works, it's still being updated, and there are still just as many apps being released. And when you get a new phone with WP8, it will work just like WP7 did, and your apps carry over. There's no need to throw a tantrum; no one has been abandoned. This is exactly what I'm talking about: people laugh at the platform with uneducated opinions they tout as fact and spread their "facts" to other people. It ends up being a game of telephone/Chinese whispers where the truth gets more distorted the more its repeated. If you'd really like to like Windows Phone as you say, as a developer or as a user, you might want to think about what you're saying about it first. That app you wrote in 2010 still runs on WP8, and the app you wrote in 2013 works just fine on a WP7 launch device.
        eropple 14y ago
        You misunderstand me. I understand why they did it. I don't care. I'm a consumer here, not a developer, and I want to be the guy who has a phone with an upgrade path. If I can't get updates to my phone for at least a couple years--and save the "but but WP7.8," I do define "updates" as latest-and-greatest, and that's WP8--I consider it abandonment. Samsung does it. LG does it. HTC does it. Google's Nexus devices don't, and neither does Apple, and that's why they're on my radar and the others are not. WP7.8 is a joke for PR purposes--they are leaving people out in the cold because they can't get WP8. That's the important upgrade. Not WP7.8. And people who got on board with Windows Phone, the early adopters who Microsoft should be thanking their lucky stars doesn't consider them a joke (or didn't, maybe they do now!), are the ones getting burned. That's unacceptable behavior and I won't reward it with my money. I have no assurances, none whatsoever, that WP9 won't leave me with an un-upgradeable doorstop even if there isn't a kernel transition. They've showed that they'll be assholes even to their early adopters, so why wouldn't they be an asshole to me? And Microsoft's word is dirt to me, so I don't even believe them if they say it's the case. If they release WP9 and WP10 without fucking over their customers, I will consider them no longer radioactive. Until then, I refuse to be make P.T. Barnum more correct. (Microsoft's penchant for abandoning technology is also why I won't write code for Microsoft platforms anymore except for ports of my C++ games because that's still where a worthwhile percentage of the market is and I can't not target it. Which sucks, because I really like C#, but they made that bed, not me.)
thematt 14y ago
They're not doomed, but consumers are certainly right to look at them with more skepticism before dropping hundreds of dollar on their product.

So if a company ever messes up then they're doomed to endlessly flounder? Hey, you remember the Apple Lisa?

by jmduke 14y ago

So if a company ever messes up then they're doomed to endlessly flounder? Hey, you remember the Apple Lisa?

You've just described how many on HN view Windows Phone. It doesn't matter how good it is, remember how bad it used to be?

druiid 14y ago
And I'd say that's a bit sad. As someone whom uses the WP platform I have to say as far as software goes, MS really developed a great product. Everything just WORKS, whereas with my Android phone it ends up being the platform to 'tinker' with because things randomly crash, or run slow, etc. In my experience WP has been well integrated and there's not really any need to tinker with anything (which I suppose some don't like, but for me I just want my phone to work).
- freehunter 14y ago
  That's been my experience with WP7 and WP8. It's the platform where you don't need any apps. Everything you expect a smartphone to do comes baked in. The default featureset is quite impressive. Any extra apps are just that, extras. The problem is in getting people to give it a fair go. I hear a lot of iOS and Android complaints that don't exist on WP, and when I bring it up people just laugh.
  - eropple 14y ago
    Honestly? I'd like to like Windows Phone. I really would. I'm not much of a partisan--I switched from iOS to Android not that long ago and still write code for both. But I laugh at Windows Phone 8 because of Windows Phone 7. I simply do not trust Microsoft to not abandon its users again (and as a former XNA user, I distrust them there too).
    - freehunter 14y ago
      You honestly can't understand the reason for switching from CE to NT? You honestly expect them to abandon NT for Windows Phone 9? Even still, it's not like Windows Phone 7 users are just up and fucked, they're still receiving updates (like WP7.8). That's good for people who bought into the platform less than two years before WP8 came out; they're not left in the cold. Their apps still work, they can still install many of the new apps coming out, and when they do upgrade (almost all of) their already-purchased apps still work. It's not that Microsoft made a hard cut off and left WP7 users for dead, they're just not providing an OS upgrade from WP7 to WP8. Everything else still works like an incremental upgrade. Windows Phone 7 still works, it's still being updated, and there are still just as many apps being released. And when you get a new phone with WP8, it will work just like WP7 did, and your apps carry over. There's no need to throw a tantrum; no one has been abandoned. This is exactly what I'm talking about: people laugh at the platform with uneducated opinions they tout as fact and spread their "facts" to other people. It ends up being a game of telephone/Chinese whispers where the truth gets more distorted the more its repeated. If you'd really like to like Windows Phone as you say, as a developer or as a user, you might want to think about what you're saying about it first. That app you wrote in 2010 still runs on WP8, and the app you wrote in 2013 works just fine on a WP7 launch device.
      - eropple 14y ago
        You misunderstand me. I understand why they did it. I don't care. I'm a consumer here, not a developer, and I want to be the guy who has a phone with an upgrade path. If I can't get updates to my phone for at least a couple years--and save the "but but WP7.8," I do define "updates" as latest-and-greatest, and that's WP8--I consider it abandonment. Samsung does it. LG does it. HTC does it. Google's Nexus devices don't, and neither does Apple, and that's why they're on my radar and the others are not. WP7.8 is a joke for PR purposes--they are leaving people out in the cold because they can't get WP8. That's the important upgrade. Not WP7.8. And people who got on board with Windows Phone, the early adopters who Microsoft should be thanking their lucky stars doesn't consider them a joke (or didn't, maybe they do now!), are the ones getting burned. That's unacceptable behavior and I won't reward it with my money. I have no assurances, none whatsoever, that WP9 won't leave me with an un-upgradeable doorstop even if there isn't a kernel transition. They've showed that they'll be assholes even to their early adopters, so why wouldn't they be an asshole to me? And Microsoft's word is dirt to me, so I don't even believe them if they say it's the case. If they release WP9 and WP10 without fucking over their customers, I will consider them no longer radioactive. Until then, I refuse to be make P.T. Barnum more correct. (Microsoft's penchant for abandoning technology is also why I won't write code for Microsoft platforms anymore except for ports of my C++ games because that's still where a worthwhile percentage of the market is and I can't not target it. Which sucks, because I really like C#, but they made that bed, not me.)

thematt 14y ago

They're not doomed, but consumers are certainly right to look at them with more skepticism before dropping hundreds of dollar on their product.