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There are a lot of assertions there…with zero numbers reported. None. FTA: “The latest figures, which are based on live searches, pre-orders and pay monthly sal

There are a lot of assertions there…with zero numbers reported. None. FTA: “The latest figures, which are based on live searches, pre-orders and pay monthly sales that have been compiled by uSwitch…” In other words, this isn't UK-wide, it's an estimate based 100% on the information collected by uSwitch.com (http://www.uswitch.com/mobiles/ http://www.uswitch.com/mobiles/), and they are a price-comparison site (meaning that people are simply looking for the best deals). As of today, the #1 phone on uSwitch is…the iPhone 5 (16GB). The PCWorld article (in a niece comment) is similarly problematic—and it reports exactly the same thing I already said. The S3 reportedly outshipped (no proof that it actually outsold, sorry; Samsung doesn't report verifiable shipments, and has never reported sales) the iPhone 4S in CQ3'12—the very quarter that Apple released the iPhone 5. It's therefore unsurprising that the S3 would outsell the iPhone 4 (which would see a sales decrease as the interest in and sales of the iPhone 5 pick up). It did not keep this position for CQ4'12 (Apple's FQ1'13), where the iPhone 5 topped the S3 and any other individual Android device in most, if not all, markets. Yes, Android outsells Apple collectively, but you read something that isn't evidenced by the facts.

laumars 14y ago
I wont bother next time as it's pretty clear that you're a fanboy so any evidence presented to you would be dismissed. The RDF is strong in this one
- halostatue 14y ago
  Fanboy is shorthand for “I have no evidence to counter your assertions, therefore I‘m going to say that nothing I can say could convince you differently because you’re unable to be convinced.” It’s a winning combination of ad hominem and tautological statement rolled into one. It's also a technique only used by people who have lost an argument they shouldn't have started in the first place. You pointed to two articles: one which had no numbers (and whose actual source currently contradicts your assertion) and is therefore suspect; the other which had numbers, but that I had already addressed in my initial response and acknowledged. For a very brief moment, the S3 did, indeed, outship‡ the iPhone 4S in CQ3'12. It has not, however, kept that sales position against the latest iPhone for CQ4'12. It's entirely possible that the S3 or the eventual S4 will take the crown from the iPhone as the most successful mobile phone. I can point you to this note by Strategy Analytics which suggests that, in the U.S., at least, Apple became the largest mobile phone vendor—not just of smartphones, but of all mobile phones in CQ4'12. http://blogs.strategyanalytics.com/WDS/post/2013/02/01/Apple-Becomes-Largest-Mobile-Phone-Vendor-in-United-States-in-Q4-2012.aspx http://blogs.strategyanalytics.com/WDS/post/2013/02/01/Apple... I do happen to be a fan of quality products (and consider Apple products to be generally higher quality than non-Apple products), and far prefer the iOS ecosystem to the Android ecosystem (I don't have enough money to spend on random gadgets to be as disappointed as I was with the N7 on a regular basis; on the other hand, the N7 has only gotten better since I bought it, so Android is getting better incrementally). I am not, however, uncritically supportive of Apple. What I am is dismissive of claims without merit—like yours were. The only RDF involved is the one you seem to have that suggests for Android to win, Apple must lose. I happen to think that there is room for quality products from a variety of vendors. As much as I don't think that RIMM^WBlackBerry’s chances are very good anymore, I do have a desire to see them succeed, in part because I know people who have worked there, and, well, they're Canadian. ‡ Shipments aren't sales, but you don't keep high shipments of the sales are not there (cf. Blackberry Playbook), so it's a reasonable proxy, even if it's probably incorrect by a few percentage points at any given time because of channel stuffing.
  - laumars 14y ago
    > "The only RDF involved is the one you seem to have that suggests for Android to win, Apple must lose." That's rubbish. I don't like either the S3 nor iPhones. And I couldn't care less which platform outsells which other platforms. I just get fed up with people like yourself rewriting history to promote Apple. You asked for citation. I provided. Now you're dismissing the evidence because it doesn't fit with your world view; which makes you beyond reason. So I'm not going to waste any more time trying.
    - halostatue 14y ago
      I don't care to promote Apple—it does a fine job on its own. If you truly think that people like me are trying to rewrite history, you need to provide evidence supporting your claims. If you'll remember correctly (which only requires reading up the thread a few posts), I simply suggested that your unfounded assertion needed citation because the evidence simply isn't there. You gave a citation, but…it's rather obvious you didn't read the article you provided as supposed evidence. There was an assertion (SGS3 is the most popular phone in the UK for the 7th month in a row). Not one place in the entire breathless article was a single number backing that assertion—nor even a link to the supposed source (uSwitch). Since it didn't, I decided to find out what uSwitch is, and look at its own site. What I found, and what you deride as fanboyism and an RDF, is that the website is a dealfinder type of website. This doesn't make it an invalid source, but it does make it a skewed source unless it's pulling data from actual points-of-sale. I've done a bit more looking and there is a page that suggests that some form of the SGSx series has been the top phone in the UK for most of the last year (http://www.uswitch.com/mobiles/mobile_tracker/ http://www.uswitch.com/mobiles/mobile_tracker/). I don't believe it to be true for all phone buyers in the UK, mostly because the current #3 phone is the Nokia 100. More than that, I also don't believe it because of the statement at the top of the page: “Take a look at the UK's most popular mobile phones this week, ranked by deal popularity and sales. Statistics are derived from uSwitch.com, plus our network of mobile phone comparison partners.” In other words, uSwitch is reporting phone popularity not just based on the choice of a phone, but based on the popularity of particular deals. It also reports no verifiable numbers (e.g., SGS3 sold 30k units last week, while the iPhone 5 only sold 29k units), but a private algorithm that includes deal search results. I can see exactly where the supremely lazy “reporter” from the article you lazily (and uncritically) grabbed from Google treats this as a Big Deal for Samsung—but it's not. It's not verifiable and only speaks more toward deal discovery than actual sales reported by O2, Vodaphone, T-Mobile, etc. The second article (that you pointed someone else to) is something else. It points to real data. It is verifiable. It's also something that I had already indicated was the case, and that is utterly unsurprising given that the iPhone 4S was down at least 3MM sales because of the availability of the iPhone 5 for just over a week at the end of CQ3'12 (the 5MM figure is the iPhone 5 opening weekend sales; the iPhone 4S was down about 2MM sales over the previous quarter, normal growth should have seen it up 3MM if there weren't an iPhone 5). So yes, in CQ3'12, the SGS3 outsold the iPhone 4S 18MM to 16MM. By another light, it still missed sales against the "flagship iPhone" by at least 3MM (21+MM combined iPhone 4S + iPhone 5 vs 18MM). Then it goes off the rails into editorial rambling on facts not in evidence. The first couple of paragraphs were good, though. (It's interesting, though, that I can't find anything concreate about “Kirk Linsky” or “Content Works” that doesn't end up referring to these LogMeIn-sponsored articles on the PCWorld website.)
- deleted 14y ago
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laumars 14y ago

I wont bother next time as it's pretty clear that you're a fanboy so any evidence presented to you would be dismissed. The RDF is strong in this one

halostatue 14y ago
Fanboy is shorthand for “I have no evidence to counter your assertions, therefore I‘m going to say that nothing I can say could convince you differently because you’re unable to be convinced.” It’s a winning combination of ad hominem and tautological statement rolled into one. It's also a technique only used by people who have lost an argument they shouldn't have started in the first place. You pointed to two articles: one which had no numbers (and whose actual source currently contradicts your assertion) and is therefore suspect; the other which had numbers, but that I had already addressed in my initial response and acknowledged. For a very brief moment, the S3 did, indeed, outship‡ the iPhone 4S in CQ3'12. It has not, however, kept that sales position against the latest iPhone for CQ4'12. It's entirely possible that the S3 or the eventual S4 will take the crown from the iPhone as the most successful mobile phone. I can point you to this note by Strategy Analytics which suggests that, in the U.S., at least, Apple became the largest mobile phone vendor—not just of smartphones, but of all mobile phones in CQ4'12. http://blogs.strategyanalytics.com/WDS/post/2013/02/01/Apple-Becomes-Largest-Mobile-Phone-Vendor-in-United-States-in-Q4-2012.aspx http://blogs.strategyanalytics.com/WDS/post/2013/02/01/Apple... I do happen to be a fan of quality products (and consider Apple products to be generally higher quality than non-Apple products), and far prefer the iOS ecosystem to the Android ecosystem (I don't have enough money to spend on random gadgets to be as disappointed as I was with the N7 on a regular basis; on the other hand, the N7 has only gotten better since I bought it, so Android is getting better incrementally). I am not, however, uncritically supportive of Apple. What I am is dismissive of claims without merit—like yours were. The only RDF involved is the one you seem to have that suggests for Android to win, Apple must lose. I happen to think that there is room for quality products from a variety of vendors. As much as I don't think that RIMM^WBlackBerry’s chances are very good anymore, I do have a desire to see them succeed, in part because I know people who have worked there, and, well, they're Canadian. ‡ Shipments aren't sales, but you don't keep high shipments of the sales are not there (cf. Blackberry Playbook), so it's a reasonable proxy, even if it's probably incorrect by a few percentage points at any given time because of channel stuffing.
- laumars 14y ago
  > "The only RDF involved is the one you seem to have that suggests for Android to win, Apple must lose." That's rubbish. I don't like either the S3 nor iPhones. And I couldn't care less which platform outsells which other platforms. I just get fed up with people like yourself rewriting history to promote Apple. You asked for citation. I provided. Now you're dismissing the evidence because it doesn't fit with your world view; which makes you beyond reason. So I'm not going to waste any more time trying.
  - halostatue 14y ago
    I don't care to promote Apple—it does a fine job on its own. If you truly think that people like me are trying to rewrite history, you need to provide evidence supporting your claims. If you'll remember correctly (which only requires reading up the thread a few posts), I simply suggested that your unfounded assertion needed citation because the evidence simply isn't there. You gave a citation, but…it's rather obvious you didn't read the article you provided as supposed evidence. There was an assertion (SGS3 is the most popular phone in the UK for the 7th month in a row). Not one place in the entire breathless article was a single number backing that assertion—nor even a link to the supposed source (uSwitch). Since it didn't, I decided to find out what uSwitch is, and look at its own site. What I found, and what you deride as fanboyism and an RDF, is that the website is a dealfinder type of website. This doesn't make it an invalid source, but it does make it a skewed source unless it's pulling data from actual points-of-sale. I've done a bit more looking and there is a page that suggests that some form of the SGSx series has been the top phone in the UK for most of the last year (http://www.uswitch.com/mobiles/mobile_tracker/ http://www.uswitch.com/mobiles/mobile_tracker/). I don't believe it to be true for all phone buyers in the UK, mostly because the current #3 phone is the Nokia 100. More than that, I also don't believe it because of the statement at the top of the page: “Take a look at the UK's most popular mobile phones this week, ranked by deal popularity and sales. Statistics are derived from uSwitch.com, plus our network of mobile phone comparison partners.” In other words, uSwitch is reporting phone popularity not just based on the choice of a phone, but based on the popularity of particular deals. It also reports no verifiable numbers (e.g., SGS3 sold 30k units last week, while the iPhone 5 only sold 29k units), but a private algorithm that includes deal search results. I can see exactly where the supremely lazy “reporter” from the article you lazily (and uncritically) grabbed from Google treats this as a Big Deal for Samsung—but it's not. It's not verifiable and only speaks more toward deal discovery than actual sales reported by O2, Vodaphone, T-Mobile, etc. The second article (that you pointed someone else to) is something else. It points to real data. It is verifiable. It's also something that I had already indicated was the case, and that is utterly unsurprising given that the iPhone 4S was down at least 3MM sales because of the availability of the iPhone 5 for just over a week at the end of CQ3'12 (the 5MM figure is the iPhone 5 opening weekend sales; the iPhone 4S was down about 2MM sales over the previous quarter, normal growth should have seen it up 3MM if there weren't an iPhone 5). So yes, in CQ3'12, the SGS3 outsold the iPhone 4S 18MM to 16MM. By another light, it still missed sales against the "flagship iPhone" by at least 3MM (21+MM combined iPhone 4S + iPhone 5 vs 18MM). Then it goes off the rails into editorial rambling on facts not in evidence. The first couple of paragraphs were good, though. (It's interesting, though, that I can't find anything concreate about “Kirk Linsky” or “Content Works” that doesn't end up referring to these LogMeIn-sponsored articles on the PCWorld website.)
deleted 14y ago
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