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It's one reason to go to the valley, but not the only one. When I moved to the valley last year, everyone asked me why? I said "People". Those people could b

It's one reason to go to the valley, but not the only one. When I moved to the valley last year, everyone asked me why? I said "People". Those people could be new friends at other startups, future talent for my company, future informal advisors, potential investors, or an awesome bartender at the Olde Pro in Palo Alto. The Valley exposed me to people that I couldn't have met anywhere else. If you love technology and startups, you should probably give it a shot out there. Just because you move doesn't mean you'll have magic VC genies grant you three rounds of funding. You will definitely meet some awesome people along the way.

jwilliams 18y ago
Agreed. I live over in Australia -- My cofounder and I are in Bay Area (visiting) and the access to having access to the people/minds here is astounding... And as you allude to - it's not just hackers, it's a whole ecosystem of people that can contribute to your idea.
zhyder 18y ago
Agree about the other benefits in addition to access to VCs, but it's still arguable if they're worth the higher cost of living. If you're a bootstrapped startup, you'll hit ramen profitability much sooner elsewhere. When you have an infinite runway, you'll have infinite time to find people as well :).
- garply 18y ago
  To me the valley seems like a good place to grow if you're already profitable and can't find enough talent in whatever location you started. For a business with a few guys doing product development in an apartment and counting every penny, I just don't see the justification for the cost of living.
- hedgehog 18y ago
  OTOH being out here is great for meeting other startup minded technical & business people. You're out here too, what's your experience been?
- pg 18y ago
  Living in the Valley is not especially expensive for founders. Buying a house in the Valley is notoriously expensive, because there is so much speculation built into prices (even now). But renting a two-bedroom apartment in Mountain View is no more expensive for equivalent quality of life than in Boston. We gave groups the same amount of money in Boston cycles as in Bay Area cycles, and we never noticed any difference in how long it lasted.
  - staunch 18y ago
    It may be similar to Boston, but it's far more expensive than living in many other parts of the country (or state).
    - jacoblyles 18y ago
      My father's mortgage payment in North Carolina is one-third of my (shared!) rent payment in San Diego. When I hear of my younger friends buying houses back home, I am reminded of the real monetary costs of the life I lead.
    - Goladus 18y ago
      If you can overcome the drawbacks of being away from a creative urban center, you can save a lot of money on housing. http://utica.craigslist.org/apa/1077482911.html http://utica.craigslist.org/apa/1077482911.html $695/mo for a 2-bedroom apartment. Not a great neighborhood but could be worse. You'd be lucky to share a bedroom for $350 a month in Boston. Many other expenses don't change much, though, like food, and some go up, like heating and electricity. And in Utica, the chance of overhearing someone talking about PhD-level computer science while you're out to eat is virtually zero.
  - jasonlbaptiste 18y ago
    Living in the valley was actually much cheaper for me than Miami. That's from housing to my car (the lease was cheaper out there, so I waited till I was situated to get one) to food (jack in the box value menu ftw). I'd suggest living with others, as the 1 bedrooms do seem to be higher priced to rent. Gas is never fun, but that's most of California. Take the 22 or 522 bus. It runs 24/7 down el camino and costs 60 bucks a month for an unlimited pass.
ghshephard 18y ago
Definitely about the people. Unless you are the founder of a company, you are never working for the _current_ company, but instead are working for the next company (in which you will be a founder, or an early stage employee that gets a good chunk of equity) - you need to demonstrate that you are someone they want to hire. With the possible exception of craigslist, where they manage to accomplish heroic feats with very little in the way of staff, any company that is eyeballing $1B+ market-cap will grow to hundreds, and possibly thousands of employees. Where else on earth can you find such a concentration of DBAs, Sysadmins, Designers, Tech-Friendly-Lawyers, Developers, Product Manager who have all three of the following characteristics: o Very, Very good at their job. o Real world experience in several major companies. o And, most importantly, willing to go to work for a "lets throw caution to the wind" startup. Change is the only constant in the valley. People here, for whatever reason, are just comfortable changing jobs, sharing information, and building new things. The weather is astoundingly good. Never too hot or too cold - 350 / 365 days in the year. And the other 15 usually mean having to actually turn on your heater or open a window on a warm summer night. The peninsula, for the most part, does suck in terms of lifestyle. There are exceptions (Murphy Street in Sunnyvale, Good portions of San Francisco, downtown San Jose on a Saturday night) - but, in general, it's mile upon mile of suburbia and strip malls. This is not Manhattan or downtown Vancouver. (On the flip side, with few distractions there is more time to get work done) The major downside is that unless you are filthy rich or already a home owner, the only sane strategy (unless you don't mind commuting for 90-120 minutes each morning) is to rent. With all that said, if what you are looking to do is grow a company organically, and have your eyes set on something more sane like a $10mm-$100mm market cap over 5-10 years, there are probably a lot of ways to succeed without being in the middle of it all.

jwilliams 18y ago

Agreed. I live over in Australia -- My cofounder and I are in Bay Area (visiting) and the access to having access to the people/minds here is astounding... And as you allude to - it's not just hackers, it's a whole ecosystem of people that can contribute to your idea.

zhyder 18y ago

Agree about the other benefits in addition to access to VCs, but it's still arguable if they're worth the higher cost of living. If you're a bootstrapped startup, you'll hit ramen profitability much sooner elsewhere. When you have an infinite runway, you'll have infinite time to find people as well :).

garply 18y ago
To me the valley seems like a good place to grow if you're already profitable and can't find enough talent in whatever location you started. For a business with a few guys doing product development in an apartment and counting every penny, I just don't see the justification for the cost of living.
hedgehog 18y ago
OTOH being out here is great for meeting other startup minded technical & business people. You're out here too, what's your experience been?
pg 18y ago
Living in the Valley is not especially expensive for founders. Buying a house in the Valley is notoriously expensive, because there is so much speculation built into prices (even now). But renting a two-bedroom apartment in Mountain View is no more expensive for equivalent quality of life than in Boston. We gave groups the same amount of money in Boston cycles as in Bay Area cycles, and we never noticed any difference in how long it lasted.
- staunch 18y ago
  It may be similar to Boston, but it's far more expensive than living in many other parts of the country (or state).
  - jacoblyles 18y ago
    My father's mortgage payment in North Carolina is one-third of my (shared!) rent payment in San Diego. When I hear of my younger friends buying houses back home, I am reminded of the real monetary costs of the life I lead.
  - Goladus 18y ago
    If you can overcome the drawbacks of being away from a creative urban center, you can save a lot of money on housing. http://utica.craigslist.org/apa/1077482911.html http://utica.craigslist.org/apa/1077482911.html $695/mo for a 2-bedroom apartment. Not a great neighborhood but could be worse. You'd be lucky to share a bedroom for $350 a month in Boston. Many other expenses don't change much, though, like food, and some go up, like heating and electricity. And in Utica, the chance of overhearing someone talking about PhD-level computer science while you're out to eat is virtually zero.
- jasonlbaptiste 18y ago
  Living in the valley was actually much cheaper for me than Miami. That's from housing to my car (the lease was cheaper out there, so I waited till I was situated to get one) to food (jack in the box value menu ftw). I'd suggest living with others, as the 1 bedrooms do seem to be higher priced to rent. Gas is never fun, but that's most of California. Take the 22 or 522 bus. It runs 24/7 down el camino and costs 60 bucks a month for an unlimited pass.

ghshephard 18y ago

Definitely about the people. Unless you are the founder of a company, you are never working for the _current_ company, but instead are working for the next company (in which you will be a founder, or an early stage employee that gets a good chunk of equity) - you need to demonstrate that you are someone they want to hire. With the possible exception of craigslist, where they manage to accomplish heroic feats with very little in the way of staff, any company that is eyeballing $1B+ market-cap will grow to hundreds, and possibly thousands of employees. Where else on earth can you find such a concentration of DBAs, Sysadmins, Designers, Tech-Friendly-Lawyers, Developers, Product Manager who have all three of the following characteristics: o Very, Very good at their job. o Real world experience in several major companies. o And, most importantly, willing to go to work for a "lets throw caution to the wind" startup. Change is the only constant in the valley. People here, for whatever reason, are just comfortable changing jobs, sharing information, and building new things. The weather is astoundingly good. Never too hot or too cold - 350 / 365 days in the year. And the other 15 usually mean having to actually turn on your heater or open a window on a warm summer night. The peninsula, for the most part, does suck in terms of lifestyle. There are exceptions (Murphy Street in Sunnyvale, Good portions of San Francisco, downtown San Jose on a Saturday night) - but, in general, it's mile upon mile of suburbia and strip malls. This is not Manhattan or downtown Vancouver. (On the flip side, with few distractions there is more time to get work done) The major downside is that unless you are filthy rich or already a home owner, the only sane strategy (unless you don't mind commuting for 90-120 minutes each morning) is to rent. With all that said, if what you are looking to do is grow a company organically, and have your eyes set on something more sane like a $10mm-$100mm market cap over 5-10 years, there are probably a lot of ways to succeed without being in the middle of it all.