8 ms·

Don’t Waste Your Twenties

104 points by dragondilesh 14y ago

Part 2: http://artofmanliness.com/2013/02/05/dont-waste-your-20s-train-your-brain-for-lasting-success/

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largesse 14y ago
Is HN now the place for junk neuroscience? Seriously?
- wito 14y ago
  HN is for everything that is interesting for hackers. And yes, neuroscience could be interesting also.
  - largesse 14y ago
    I'm fine with actual neuroscience.
Matti 14y ago
It would be interesting to have this contrasted with an article written about the same age span 75-150 years ago.
- arethuza 14y ago
  That's an interesting point, because in roughly that timescale an awful lot of people had their passions and fearlessness subverted and channelled into pretty awful directions.
chookrl 14y ago
Funny, I've just received my weekly digest and started reading this: http://www.quora.com/Life-Advice/I-am-turning-27-and-feel-I-have-wasted-a-lot-of-time-Is-it-too-late http://www.quora.com/Life-Advice/I-am-turning-27-and-feel-I-...
Nursie 14y ago
At Age 20: I was partying like a madman, it was awesome At Age 21: Graduated, seeing a great girl, making a little money, enjoying city life At Age 22: Still having fun, meeting and sleeping with new people At Age 23: Yup. Same. At Age 24: New girl, same awesome life At Age 25: Lots of international travel this year. More great friends made Fun! At Age 26: More of the same. And I'm still doing financially fine (though have not ever really settled into home ownership, I'm too fond of packing everything in and moving round the world), and am building a business based on the technical experience I gained in that decade. Also now in my mid 30s I still like learning and I still enjoy risk-taking. You'll never make me regret not taking life seriously, and channelling my awesome early-20s brain-power into socialising and enjoying myself. tl;dr - sex, drugs and rock'n'roll
- henryaj 14y ago
  Awesome. It sounds like you had a great decade! Do you have any pointers for us early-twentysomethings? I've just turned 23 and while I'm having fun in the city, enjoying the world of work, it doesn't sound quite as interesting as the same part of your life. How did you meet new friends, expand your social network, sleep with new people, and enjoy the metropolis? I've found the transition from university to work has made all of the above more difficult.
  - Nursie 14y ago
    I guess in my case I guess had a hook, I was part of a scene (the goth scene, in case you want a laugh, though in the UK it isn't/wasn't synonymous with angry teenagers or Marilyn Manson). Once you're on the inside of something like that then the barriers to meeting new people within the scene are significantly reduced, though obviously you're perceived to have put up barriers to everyone else to a greater or lesser extent. Also it turns out a lot of goths are software engineers... I guess what I'm saying is if you have a thing (be it goth, learning the ukelele, mountain climbing, whatever) don't be afraid to embrace the thing, and don't let the day job take over your whole life :) --edit-- Also, just do stuff. Take a risk, meet people off the internet. I organised a couple of 'fark' meetups in London back then, and even have a couple of pretty good IRL friends met through some much shadier sites.
acabal 14y ago
I hate these kinds of articles because they can put tremendous pressure on people. There isn't a "right" way to spend your twenties (or thirties, or any decade) and comparing yourself to Einstein and Newton and Kepler like this article does is worse than counterproductive. The only way you should concern yourself with living is to try to be happy every day, whatever that means to you. Listening to pundits showing you charts and graphs and science about how you're wasting your life will just invite stress and pressure.
- nakedrobot2 14y ago
  Exactly. Save the serious stuff for later. When else will you be able to have the most fun? When are you the prettiest, the strongest, the wildest? Enjoy yourself in your twenties. Isn't that what life is really all about? Sex, drugs, and rock n roll. Friends. Your tribe. You can recover in your thirties and get serious, work long hours, enjoy your children, and watch the wrinkles on your face grow.
- LatvjuAvs 14y ago
  Of course, but someone have to pay for adds. Someone presents an opinion and you have someone else who presents his opinion and that is how we start a discussion. "I work hard to enjoy my twenties" "I discipline myself to enjoy my twenties" "Or I do something else that others have came up how to enjoy my twenties"
- moe 14y ago
  Especially idiotic are the random references to successful people. As if not "wasting" your 20s (whatever that means) would somehow improve your odds to become the next Einstein. If you happen to be the next Einstein then I firmly doubt reading baseless self-improvement drivel makes a difference towards realizing or not realizing your potential.
  - pjbrunet 14y ago
    Keep in mind what's really important.
  - dualogy 14y ago
Paul_S 14y ago
I often think that if I could talk to myself when I was younger I would change a lot of things in my life but the truth is my younger self would not listen. By definition I made the decisions that I thought at the time were right. If you don't have regrets you must be one of those alpha males I hear so much about.
blowski 14y ago
You shouldn't waste your life, no matter how old you are. But one person's 'wasting' is another person's 'enjoying', so articles like this don't really answer any questions.
- um304 14y ago
  Yep, everyone has their own reality. You cannot copy/paste one person's solutions to another person's situations.
speeder 14y ago
Awesome article. And I suspected that in a long time... And I fear I am too slow to do what I must. At least, I DID went into some crazy life changing adventures last year, against all "adult" advice. But this year I already started to want to give up and go in a safer path. I am 25 now.
EzGraphs 14y ago
What you do with your twenties really isn't the significant insight of the article. Though there is some merit in the conclusion: The twenties are for launching, while the thirties are for building what you launched. The main point is to recognize the state of your brain at a given age and its resulting effects: The trick is simply to take advantage of each power in the season it is given That is applicable regardless of chronological age.
johncoltrane 14y ago
I've spent my twenties doing graffiti on trains all around Europe and the world. It didn't make me rich or more employable but boy, what a ride!
pkorzeniewski 14y ago
In my opinion it's all about the golden mean. Party too much and you will regret not achieving anything in life, working a shitty job you hate for mediocre money. Work too much and you will regret not having fun being young, realising it's too late now and even the money you have won't make for the lost time.
- blablabla123 14y ago
  Yeah I agree. 20s are the time in which you basically bootstrap your life. Anyway, did the author ever think for a minute that Kepler or Newton were probably pretty "special" people? I don't believe any article about the human brain except it is from a decorated Neuroscientist... ;)
  - arethuza 14y ago
    "Special" hardly does Newton justice - not many top scientists have made a succesful jump to undercover secret service agent fighting organised crime...
    - blablabla123 14y ago
      What I mean is, when you look at the list of people in the article: pick one of them and odds are high that this person is just completely over the top, super smart, IQ over xxx and whatever. When you think you are super smart, you are probably not so smart in comparison to this person.
philwelch 14y ago
I'm a little disappointed in the middlebrow dismissals here. Let's set aside the brain stuff and do some simple math: you're going to live anywhere from three to seven decades after you reach 30, but only one decade of adulthood before. Therefore your have the opportunity to build a foundation for your life's happiness in your 20's. Economists have this notion called the "discount rate", which is the degree to which one favors instant gratification over greater long-term returns. The younger you are, the more biased towards long-term returns you should be, largely because you have a longer long-term to enjoy them in. This principle is just as true in life as in financial investing. Likewise, as in financial investing, it's prudent to take more risks while younger since you have more time to recover from them. Of course, we say such things to comfort ourselves now. Advice is wasted on youth.
- Nursie 14y ago
  This neglects that for many people your 20s are also when you're at your most active, most sociable and all-round most alive. To me an over-emphasis on 'investing' during this period is the real waste.
  - philwelch 14y ago
    Activity and sociability are exactly the resources you use to create your investments, by achieving real accomplishments, building your skills, and meeting the people who will become your lifelong friends. Hell, you should even have a lot of fun--having good memories and stories to tell are an investment, too. But bias yourself towards things you'll want to have done later, not just things you want to do now.
- theorique 14y ago
  The younger you are, the more biased towards long-term returns you should be, largely because you have a longer long-term to enjoy them in. ... and the more biased toward short-term returns you are, because you're young. Life's a bitch that way :)
jasonkester 14y ago
Here are three of my decades thus far. I'm trying to decide which of these was "wasted" according to the article: Phase I, 21-30: "Work hard/Play hard" mode, socking away retirement savings, building skills & reputation to prepare for Phase II, nights & weekends packed with climbing trips and going out. "I think I can get a full night sleep the weekend after next". Phase II, 30-40: "Semi-retired nomad" mode, working short (~3mo) contracts about once a year, logging several laps around the world & entire seasons spent chilling at some of the best climbing areas anywhere. Building SaaS products from the beach to finance Phase III. Phase III, 40-: "Comfortable family guy" mode, working remotely from a little village in the countryside south of Paris with some of the best bouldering in the world, playing with the kid in the garden, and doing "vacations" involving actually booking hotel rooms and not forcing myself to live on $15/day when on the road. I think according to the article, I was supposed to swap out the "work for employers" part of Phase I for the "build products" part of Phase II. But I'm not sure where Phase II would have come in, had I done that. It's tough. I guess the best a fella can do is pay attention to one's life and try to at least have a plan. Had you asked 25 year old Jason what his plan was, he would have described something remarkably similar to the above. Except that Phase III might have involved a 19 year old Swedish girl and happened in his sixties:)
- decasteve 14y ago
  Similar trajectory here. Probably a number of HN'ers in the same boat? Phase I, 18-29. "Work, train (athletics), travel, and save money." Started working at 18. Never settled down anywhere, after 21 I started saving money. Also building contacts that will carry me into phase II. Phase II, 29-34 (now). "Husband/father/freelancer/student/athlete/coach". Pursuing studies in Math (my passion) getting ready for Grad school (2014). Funding it with Phase I and working part-time from home. Lots of family time and staying in good shape. Keeping a consistent routine (something I never did in Phase I). Phase III. Probably starts around 35 next year: Math PhD? Post-doc, etc. Nothing set in stone. But without Phase I in my 20s the way it was I wouldn't be in the position to do this now. I think I was supposed to be a student first, then start a career. Not the other way around.
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eksith 14y ago
Can someone properly define "wasting" please? Accomplishments, last I checked, don't have a youth fetish. This one was well written, but these types of articles miss the point. You can't make sweeping generalizations based on brain chemistry alone. Experience and background plays a large part of who we are, not just genes. You succeed when you succeed, if it happens. Sometimes, maturity is essential for the process, but age is often not a factor on the Internet. I remember an article posted here (can't recall at the moment, maybe my 30yo brain failed me, HA!) where a designer discussed how people disregarded his accomplishments and talent because he was comparatively young. Well, after going exclusively online, that's not a factor. Same applies for older people as well. Curiosity, passion, innovation, all the things that make the 20yo brain so wonderful, according to the article, can be sustained well into later years as well.
- jl6 14y ago
  All quite true but I'll drop in here that the Fields medal is only available up to age 40.
ycuser 14y ago
No matter what the age, you can still take control of your life. Also, time wasted enjoyed is not wasted time. So what if your peers were successful in their 20's and you spent your time enjoying what you wanted. Agreed, that with age you are a different person in your physical and mental ability, you got to make the most of your time here and and have no regrets.
ErrantX 14y ago
Sometimes I worry that I'm missing my twenties. I'm 26 now and occasionally wish I had done more. But if you look back there are lots of things you've done. They might not be as crazy, exciting or important as some people manage. But the truth is your probably ahead of the curve; very few people achieve truly extraordinary things. I've travelled, met amazing people, started my own business, fallen in and out of love. I could have maybe done more of all these things, but it's hard to regret them. Don't waste any decades of your life. But also, don't think about your life experience so far as wasted. That's silly.
BjoernKW 14y ago
From a Meat Loaf song: "A wasted youth is better by far than a wise and productive old age" I've always found those lines to be quite insightful.
skrebbel 14y ago
Articles like this remind me of "Spreadsheet CEOs": people who focus only on what is visible in the numbers, and not on all the little underlying things that make all that possible. Save costs by removing trash bins from every desk. Make money by focusing on the best-selling products or services only. At the age the people mentioned in this article were busy starting businesses and winning nobel prizes, I was busy discovering my personality, improving my soft skills, getting over myself little ridiculous situations that had always made me nervous, and developing a small set of real, true friendships. Is the result measurable on my CV? Surely not. Did I spend a significant amount of time in bars or hung over? Definitely. Were my twenties wasted? I can't see how.
kevin_morrill 14y ago
For those interested, there are two great works that go into much more detail on not just 20s, but the other decades of peoples' lives. The Seasons of a Man's Life (http://refer.ly/a4hO http://refer.ly/a4hO) is the work of a few researchers. They were frustrated that most work in psychology studied childhood development in depth, but little research was done into development during your 30s, 40s, 50s and 60s. The research is focused entirely on guys (sorry ladies). Not surprisingly, he was able to find several phases most men go through. Several friends have found the book really helpful when they're reflecting on life. The Up Series (http://refer.ly/a4hN http://refer.ly/a4hN) is a set of films, each shot every 7 years that chronicles the real lives of a dozen people from England. While it has a bit of reality TV "drama", most all of it is the real unvarnished changes that people go through as they age, including their regrets and accomplishments. It's a remarkable watch, given that you get to see people age from 7 to 56. Just as an example, I feel it prepared me ahead of time to deal with the death of my mother, and savor the time that I have with my dad who's still alive. Ultimately, we all have to face up to a lot of the same things, and it's comforting to have a bit of a map.
sergiosgc 14y ago
The master advice for being happy at any age isn't even in the article: Surround yourself with interesting people; build meaningful relations. Every study, every social comparison comes up with this factor as prime factor. It's not money, it's not social recognition, it's not fame. Your happiness is mainly influenced by how much you are tightly integrated into a happy group.
- um304 14y ago
  +1 I can relate to it.
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polskibus 14y ago
This article is self-contradictory. On one hand a person should follow their dreams, take risk, blahblahblah and on the other worry not to waste that time! To take risk I need to be able to forget about potential waste and opportunities lost.
jacques_chester 14y ago
I lost my 20s to depression and to the aftermath of depression. I used to be grumpy about it. However there is a thin thread of causality that leads me to the life I lead now. It's pretty good and I think it will get better. Also: The Art of Manliness is played-out schtick. Manhood doesn't come from reading about manhood on a website whose incentives are skewed to making you read more.
- saryant 14y ago
  > However there is a thin thread of causality that leads me to the life I lead now. While I'm still early in my 20s this is what I've realized as well. I spent much of 2011 battling depression. That year sucked and I used to wish I hadn't had to go through it and that the events which led to it hadn't happened. Then I realized if that wish came true, I wouldn't have the friends I have today, I wouldn't have had the experiences I had in 2012 and I wouldn't be where I am right now. There's no way to see that line of causality until it's said and done. Life is strange that way.
  - cynest 14y ago
    My experience has been somewhat different. 2012 was a wholly miserable year for me and I honestly feel that it was rather pointless ordeal exacerbated by toxic relationships I lack the means to escape.
VLM 14y ago
My advice to the kids or the weak willed reading either the article or the HN commentary is to study the wikipedia article for "survivorship bias" and think really hard about how if you're only "beginning things" in your 20s and "building things" in 30s etc then you're doing it horribly wrong. For a small fraction of people who are very lucky this is almost useful, but everyone else needs be able to handle what could negatively be described as rebuilding after disaster or positively described as lifelong learning. You shouldn't stop "beginning" until you're dead, not on your 30th birthday or whatever. Never stop "beginning". Always be resilient... Ask any "old" person, eventually, you're gonna crash and burn even if you think you're conservative. What really separates the winners from the losers is how you react when at the bottom, not when peaking or at the top... Another thing worth considering is living in the world, not in a plan, although goals are OK. A plan is nice, but as an engineer I assure you that physical reality follows its laws, not your plan, and you'd best get used to living in the world instead of in a plan. Not that planning as an abstract concept is always a waste of time, it just usually is. Goals are good and are not detailed plans. A goal is something like meet the ideal spouse and live happily with them. A plan has ridiculous metrics and set pointless scheduled firm dates, like meet spouse at exactly age 26, married by 28, squirt out precisely 2.1 kids by 32, etc. Plans are doomed to failure and unhappiness, goals on the other hand are OK. Finally a really good piece of advice is broaden your horizons and question your definitions, especially if the definitions don't benefit you and come from people making a profit off you. "Kids" think the definition of socializing is staying up all night drinking until you vomit and make a fool of yourself then miss work the next day. Therefore the 20s are when you should socialize. Uh, no, you need a new definition of socialize and you should be doin it all your life not just 20s or until your liver gives out. I was ignorant too, and I survived and improved since, so don't feel bad if you have to do the same.
- pm90 14y ago
  This sounds like really good advice, thanks for sharing!
kghose 14y ago
Don't waste your twenty minutes reading this article. Go play with your spouse/children/cat/dog/friends for twenty minutes instead and then read the desiderata (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desiderata http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desiderata) for instructions on how to live life at any age.
michaelochurch 14y ago
Not buying the article. I agree that no one should waste 10 years of his life-- that seems obvious-- but the article itself is a mix of pseudoscience and anecdote. In fact, the people who seem least to be "wasting" their 20s-- the ones in IBD analyst programs and MBA programs-- are the ones losing their creativity the fastest. If you play the corporate game, creative atrophy sets in, and it's a rapid process.
- saryant 14y ago
  This is what I realized. I did what a "successful" college grad is supposed to do: I joined a large company right after college and started a career. Problem was, I got screwed around by them and quit after six months (finishing up my two weeks notice right now). Part of this is that I picked a bad company to join (they had me filling out dozens of meeting invites in Outlook and doing SAP data entry when I was supposedly hired as a developer) but I also spent those six months really thinking about what I wanted to do on a day-to-day basis and where I wanted to end up in 5, 10, 20 years. I realized that I wasn't creating anything, I was just following a process. Filling out database table request forms and bashing my head over trying to explain a cursor to a supposedly senior developer. So I quit after saving up about a year's living expenses and I'm going to use the next year to figure something out, not sure what just yet. I've been kicking around a few ideas and we're going to start talking to potential customers at the end of the month. I'll probably end up burning through my savings and going out to find another job a year from now but at least I'll have tried. If I don't do something creative I feel like I'm going to forget how. Five years from now I think I'll regret not trying more than I'll enjoy the fruits of a five-year-old career.
Kaivo 14y ago
I didn't read the article other than the comparison with all those great minds. I don't feel that concerned when it comes to comparing myself to such persons. I mean, should I have been the next Einstein, I would have know before reaching my 20s. Nevertheless, I'm a very curious person, thanks to my dad. I want to understand and know many many things (not everything), and for the last year I've spent most of my time learning, reading interesting articles here and there, following classes, reading the f*g manual. Eight months ago, I never had touched Linux. Last week, I installed Arch Linux. I didn't know how to program a year ago. Now I touched SQL, VBA, C/C++, Python, Haskell. I'm no expert in any of these language, but I do my best to learn a handful of languages before sticking to one/a few. I try to learn something new every day, and I don't even feel like I'm trying. All the information just flows at me. For each new thing I understand, there are 1000s more questions that appear. I don't feel like I'm wasting my 20s even though I'm not building the next Microsoft. I'm constantly learning and I couldn't be happier about it. I feel like I'm doing a ton of investment for my future, and I'll never stop learning.
dodyg 14y ago
How about this - don't waste you time following what other people think a fulfilled life should be.
um304 14y ago
I got bit depressed when I read the article, but was cheered up when I read the comments here. You guys are awesome!!! I think a better article could have been "Don't waste your day". Who has seen tomorrow, and they are talking about planning a whole decade! Keep your expectations low, work hard, give more than you take and be grateful. If you are to become next Einstein, your destiny will find you by itself. That's the best I can think for myself.
cafard 14y ago
I find it hard to take seriously any information coming from a domain called "artofmanliness.com". I find myself wondering whether the Art in question is Donovan, Garfunkel, or Carney.
nsxwolf 14y ago
Too late for me, I guess. Oh well.
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timinman 14y ago
I'm nearly done with my thirties - a time when many of us start to feel uncomfortable about how much time we have left to make our mark. I didn't make a ton of money or change the whole world in my twenties, but I did marry a great woman early (at 20), and begin to raise 3 great kids. I feel good about those decisions, but won't settle, I still feel that I've more growing up to do and greater days are ahead.
snake_plissken 14y ago
god damn stop it with these articles! they are based on pointless and handpicked quips, and frankly they just drop my brain chemical levels and depress me until i go out to lunch for tasty burritos in 3 hours. and the god damn brain formation things PLEASE neuroscience is at the most 10 years old we have no idea what the brain is doing and won't until we monitor brains the way we do now for a generation.
kingkawn 14y ago
As long as you're willing to go through the early phases of sucking at things during adulthood you'll be fine. Most people are uncomfortable sucking at things any other time than childhood. Get rid of that limitation and your whole life is time to grow not just coast.
AutoCorrect 14y ago
There is no such thing as 'wasting your life'. You live every second of your life, how you live it is up to you, and to a smaller (but not always small) extent up to the circumstances around you. Every decision you make (or don't) pushes you in a direction, sort of a life vector. You can change the direction and the size of the vector, but it's yours, no matter what, and it's not a waste. Even if you live your entire life and leave not a ripple behind you, your life still has worth. Don't read articles like this and let them make you feel bad about what you think you haven't accomplished.
ececconi 14y ago
This article would have been much better if it started with the second section without referencing society's greatest outliers.
enobrev 14y ago
I proud to say that a) I have some regrets from my twenties and b) none of them have a damned thing to do with Albert Einstein or Bill Gates.
known 14y ago
"You are a product of your environment." --Clement Stone
nicholas73 14y ago
I would consider my 20's to be wasted, but yet I'm definitely not the same man I was at 20. So was it really wasted? I have little to show on paper or as paper, but I learned much about myself and others so that I could make better decisions later in life. Basically, I made a ton of mistakes and had my mid-life crisis early. I hope it will be worth the investment. I also improved my social skills, had a long term relationship, taught myself programming, learn how to have investment failures, quit my job, tried a few jobs, understood my family dynamics, faced my emotional issues from childhood, developed an athletic body, earned a black belt, learned proper nutrition, etc. So were my 20's wasted? Only because I wish I was 20 again and had more fun. But I'm told 30 is pretty good too. Edit: I also completed an MS degree during this time, but funny, I completely forgot to include it. It wasn't intentional. The truth is that I don't find it as valuable nor much of an accomplishment as it was just falling into a path not chosen consciously.

104 points by dragondilesh 14y ago

Part 2: http://artofmanliness.com/2013/02/05/dont-waste-your-20s-train-your-brain-for-lasting-success/

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largesse 14y ago

Is HN now the place for junk neuroscience? Seriously?

wito 14y ago
HN is for everything that is interesting for hackers. And yes, neuroscience could be interesting also.
- largesse 14y ago
  I'm fine with actual neuroscience.

Matti 14y ago

It would be interesting to have this contrasted with an article written about the same age span 75-150 years ago.

arethuza 14y ago
That's an interesting point, because in roughly that timescale an awful lot of people had their passions and fearlessness subverted and channelled into pretty awful directions.

chookrl 14y ago

Funny, I've just received my weekly digest and started reading this: http://www.quora.com/Life-Advice/I-am-turning-27-and-feel-I-have-wasted-a-lot-of-time-Is-it-too-late http://www.quora.com/Life-Advice/I-am-turning-27-and-feel-I-...

Nursie 14y ago

At Age 20: I was partying like a madman, it was awesome At Age 21: Graduated, seeing a great girl, making a little money, enjoying city life At Age 22: Still having fun, meeting and sleeping with new people At Age 23: Yup. Same. At Age 24: New girl, same awesome life At Age 25: Lots of international travel this year. More great friends made Fun! At Age 26: More of the same. And I'm still doing financially fine (though have not ever really settled into home ownership, I'm too fond of packing everything in and moving round the world), and am building a business based on the technical experience I gained in that decade. Also now in my mid 30s I still like learning and I still enjoy risk-taking. You'll never make me regret not taking life seriously, and channelling my awesome early-20s brain-power into socialising and enjoying myself. tl;dr - sex, drugs and rock'n'roll

henryaj 14y ago
Awesome. It sounds like you had a great decade! Do you have any pointers for us early-twentysomethings? I've just turned 23 and while I'm having fun in the city, enjoying the world of work, it doesn't sound quite as interesting as the same part of your life. How did you meet new friends, expand your social network, sleep with new people, and enjoy the metropolis? I've found the transition from university to work has made all of the above more difficult.
- Nursie 14y ago
  I guess in my case I guess had a hook, I was part of a scene (the goth scene, in case you want a laugh, though in the UK it isn't/wasn't synonymous with angry teenagers or Marilyn Manson). Once you're on the inside of something like that then the barriers to meeting new people within the scene are significantly reduced, though obviously you're perceived to have put up barriers to everyone else to a greater or lesser extent. Also it turns out a lot of goths are software engineers... I guess what I'm saying is if you have a thing (be it goth, learning the ukelele, mountain climbing, whatever) don't be afraid to embrace the thing, and don't let the day job take over your whole life :) --edit-- Also, just do stuff. Take a risk, meet people off the internet. I organised a couple of 'fark' meetups in London back then, and even have a couple of pretty good IRL friends met through some much shadier sites.

acabal 14y ago

I hate these kinds of articles because they can put tremendous pressure on people. There isn't a "right" way to spend your twenties (or thirties, or any decade) and comparing yourself to Einstein and Newton and Kepler like this article does is worse than counterproductive. The only way you should concern yourself with living is to try to be happy every day, whatever that means to you. Listening to pundits showing you charts and graphs and science about how you're wasting your life will just invite stress and pressure.

nakedrobot2 14y ago
Exactly. Save the serious stuff for later. When else will you be able to have the most fun? When are you the prettiest, the strongest, the wildest? Enjoy yourself in your twenties. Isn't that what life is really all about? Sex, drugs, and rock n roll. Friends. Your tribe. You can recover in your thirties and get serious, work long hours, enjoy your children, and watch the wrinkles on your face grow.
LatvjuAvs 14y ago
Of course, but someone have to pay for adds. Someone presents an opinion and you have someone else who presents his opinion and that is how we start a discussion. "I work hard to enjoy my twenties" "I discipline myself to enjoy my twenties" "Or I do something else that others have came up how to enjoy my twenties"
moe 14y ago
Especially idiotic are the random references to successful people. As if not "wasting" your 20s (whatever that means) would somehow improve your odds to become the next Einstein. If you happen to be the next Einstein then I firmly doubt reading baseless self-improvement drivel makes a difference towards realizing or not realizing your potential.
- pjbrunet 14y ago
  Keep in mind what's really important.
- dualogy 14y ago

Paul_S 14y ago

I often think that if I could talk to myself when I was younger I would change a lot of things in my life but the truth is my younger self would not listen. By definition I made the decisions that I thought at the time were right. If you don't have regrets you must be one of those alpha males I hear so much about.

blowski 14y ago

You shouldn't waste your life, no matter how old you are. But one person's 'wasting' is another person's 'enjoying', so articles like this don't really answer any questions.

um304 14y ago
Yep, everyone has their own reality. You cannot copy/paste one person's solutions to another person's situations.

speeder 14y ago

Awesome article. And I suspected that in a long time... And I fear I am too slow to do what I must. At least, I DID went into some crazy life changing adventures last year, against all "adult" advice. But this year I already started to want to give up and go in a safer path. I am 25 now.

EzGraphs 14y ago

What you do with your twenties really isn't the significant insight of the article. Though there is some merit in the conclusion: The twenties are for launching, while the thirties are for building what you launched. The main point is to recognize the state of your brain at a given age and its resulting effects: The trick is simply to take advantage of each power in the season it is given That is applicable regardless of chronological age.

johncoltrane 14y ago

I've spent my twenties doing graffiti on trains all around Europe and the world. It didn't make me rich or more employable but boy, what a ride!

pkorzeniewski 14y ago

In my opinion it's all about the golden mean. Party too much and you will regret not achieving anything in life, working a shitty job you hate for mediocre money. Work too much and you will regret not having fun being young, realising it's too late now and even the money you have won't make for the lost time.

blablabla123 14y ago
Yeah I agree. 20s are the time in which you basically bootstrap your life. Anyway, did the author ever think for a minute that Kepler or Newton were probably pretty "special" people? I don't believe any article about the human brain except it is from a decorated Neuroscientist... ;)
- arethuza 14y ago
  "Special" hardly does Newton justice - not many top scientists have made a succesful jump to undercover secret service agent fighting organised crime...
  - blablabla123 14y ago
    What I mean is, when you look at the list of people in the article: pick one of them and odds are high that this person is just completely over the top, super smart, IQ over xxx and whatever. When you think you are super smart, you are probably not so smart in comparison to this person.

philwelch 14y ago

I'm a little disappointed in the middlebrow dismissals here. Let's set aside the brain stuff and do some simple math: you're going to live anywhere from three to seven decades after you reach 30, but only one decade of adulthood before. Therefore your have the opportunity to build a foundation for your life's happiness in your 20's. Economists have this notion called the "discount rate", which is the degree to which one favors instant gratification over greater long-term returns. The younger you are, the more biased towards long-term returns you should be, largely because you have a longer long-term to enjoy them in. This principle is just as true in life as in financial investing. Likewise, as in financial investing, it's prudent to take more risks while younger since you have more time to recover from them. Of course, we say such things to comfort ourselves now. Advice is wasted on youth.

Nursie 14y ago
This neglects that for many people your 20s are also when you're at your most active, most sociable and all-round most alive. To me an over-emphasis on 'investing' during this period is the real waste.
- philwelch 14y ago
  Activity and sociability are exactly the resources you use to create your investments, by achieving real accomplishments, building your skills, and meeting the people who will become your lifelong friends. Hell, you should even have a lot of fun--having good memories and stories to tell are an investment, too. But bias yourself towards things you'll want to have done later, not just things you want to do now.
theorique 14y ago
The younger you are, the more biased towards long-term returns you should be, largely because you have a longer long-term to enjoy them in. ... and the more biased toward short-term returns you are, because you're young. Life's a bitch that way :)

jasonkester 14y ago

Here are three of my decades thus far. I'm trying to decide which of these was "wasted" according to the article: Phase I, 21-30: "Work hard/Play hard" mode, socking away retirement savings, building skills & reputation to prepare for Phase II, nights & weekends packed with climbing trips and going out. "I think I can get a full night sleep the weekend after next". Phase II, 30-40: "Semi-retired nomad" mode, working short (~3mo) contracts about once a year, logging several laps around the world & entire seasons spent chilling at some of the best climbing areas anywhere. Building SaaS products from the beach to finance Phase III. Phase III, 40-: "Comfortable family guy" mode, working remotely from a little village in the countryside south of Paris with some of the best bouldering in the world, playing with the kid in the garden, and doing "vacations" involving actually booking hotel rooms and not forcing myself to live on $15/day when on the road. I think according to the article, I was supposed to swap out the "work for employers" part of Phase I for the "build products" part of Phase II. But I'm not sure where Phase II would have come in, had I done that. It's tough. I guess the best a fella can do is pay attention to one's life and try to at least have a plan. Had you asked 25 year old Jason what his plan was, he would have described something remarkably similar to the above. Except that Phase III might have involved a 19 year old Swedish girl and happened in his sixties:)

decasteve 14y ago
Similar trajectory here. Probably a number of HN'ers in the same boat? Phase I, 18-29. "Work, train (athletics), travel, and save money." Started working at 18. Never settled down anywhere, after 21 I started saving money. Also building contacts that will carry me into phase II. Phase II, 29-34 (now). "Husband/father/freelancer/student/athlete/coach". Pursuing studies in Math (my passion) getting ready for Grad school (2014). Funding it with Phase I and working part-time from home. Lots of family time and staying in good shape. Keeping a consistent routine (something I never did in Phase I). Phase III. Probably starts around 35 next year: Math PhD? Post-doc, etc. Nothing set in stone. But without Phase I in my 20s the way it was I wouldn't be in the position to do this now. I think I was supposed to be a student first, then start a career. Not the other way around.
- 14y ago

eksith 14y ago

Can someone properly define "wasting" please? Accomplishments, last I checked, don't have a youth fetish. This one was well written, but these types of articles miss the point. You can't make sweeping generalizations based on brain chemistry alone. Experience and background plays a large part of who we are, not just genes. You succeed when you succeed, if it happens. Sometimes, maturity is essential for the process, but age is often not a factor on the Internet. I remember an article posted here (can't recall at the moment, maybe my 30yo brain failed me, HA!) where a designer discussed how people disregarded his accomplishments and talent because he was comparatively young. Well, after going exclusively online, that's not a factor. Same applies for older people as well. Curiosity, passion, innovation, all the things that make the 20yo brain so wonderful, according to the article, can be sustained well into later years as well.

jl6 14y ago
All quite true but I'll drop in here that the Fields medal is only available up to age 40.

ycuser 14y ago

No matter what the age, you can still take control of your life. Also, time wasted enjoyed is not wasted time. So what if your peers were successful in their 20's and you spent your time enjoying what you wanted. Agreed, that with age you are a different person in your physical and mental ability, you got to make the most of your time here and and have no regrets.

ErrantX 14y ago

Sometimes I worry that I'm missing my twenties. I'm 26 now and occasionally wish I had done more. But if you look back there are lots of things you've done. They might not be as crazy, exciting or important as some people manage. But the truth is your probably ahead of the curve; very few people achieve truly extraordinary things. I've travelled, met amazing people, started my own business, fallen in and out of love. I could have maybe done more of all these things, but it's hard to regret them. Don't waste any decades of your life. But also, don't think about your life experience so far as wasted. That's silly.

BjoernKW 14y ago

From a Meat Loaf song: "A wasted youth is better by far than a wise and productive old age" I've always found those lines to be quite insightful.

skrebbel 14y ago

Articles like this remind me of "Spreadsheet CEOs": people who focus only on what is visible in the numbers, and not on all the little underlying things that make all that possible. Save costs by removing trash bins from every desk. Make money by focusing on the best-selling products or services only. At the age the people mentioned in this article were busy starting businesses and winning nobel prizes, I was busy discovering my personality, improving my soft skills, getting over myself little ridiculous situations that had always made me nervous, and developing a small set of real, true friendships. Is the result measurable on my CV? Surely not. Did I spend a significant amount of time in bars or hung over? Definitely. Were my twenties wasted? I can't see how.

kevin_morrill 14y ago

For those interested, there are two great works that go into much more detail on not just 20s, but the other decades of peoples' lives. The Seasons of a Man's Life (http://refer.ly/a4hO http://refer.ly/a4hO) is the work of a few researchers. They were frustrated that most work in psychology studied childhood development in depth, but little research was done into development during your 30s, 40s, 50s and 60s. The research is focused entirely on guys (sorry ladies). Not surprisingly, he was able to find several phases most men go through. Several friends have found the book really helpful when they're reflecting on life. The Up Series (http://refer.ly/a4hN http://refer.ly/a4hN) is a set of films, each shot every 7 years that chronicles the real lives of a dozen people from England. While it has a bit of reality TV "drama", most all of it is the real unvarnished changes that people go through as they age, including their regrets and accomplishments. It's a remarkable watch, given that you get to see people age from 7 to 56. Just as an example, I feel it prepared me ahead of time to deal with the death of my mother, and savor the time that I have with my dad who's still alive. Ultimately, we all have to face up to a lot of the same things, and it's comforting to have a bit of a map.

sergiosgc 14y ago

The master advice for being happy at any age isn't even in the article: Surround yourself with interesting people; build meaningful relations. Every study, every social comparison comes up with this factor as prime factor. It's not money, it's not social recognition, it's not fame. Your happiness is mainly influenced by how much you are tightly integrated into a happy group.

um304 14y ago
+1 I can relate to it.

deleted 14y ago

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polskibus 14y ago

This article is self-contradictory. On one hand a person should follow their dreams, take risk, blahblahblah and on the other worry not to waste that time! To take risk I need to be able to forget about potential waste and opportunities lost.

jacques_chester 14y ago

I lost my 20s to depression and to the aftermath of depression. I used to be grumpy about it. However there is a thin thread of causality that leads me to the life I lead now. It's pretty good and I think it will get better. Also: The Art of Manliness is played-out schtick. Manhood doesn't come from reading about manhood on a website whose incentives are skewed to making you read more.

saryant 14y ago
> However there is a thin thread of causality that leads me to the life I lead now. While I'm still early in my 20s this is what I've realized as well. I spent much of 2011 battling depression. That year sucked and I used to wish I hadn't had to go through it and that the events which led to it hadn't happened. Then I realized if that wish came true, I wouldn't have the friends I have today, I wouldn't have had the experiences I had in 2012 and I wouldn't be where I am right now. There's no way to see that line of causality until it's said and done. Life is strange that way.
- cynest 14y ago
  My experience has been somewhat different. 2012 was a wholly miserable year for me and I honestly feel that it was rather pointless ordeal exacerbated by toxic relationships I lack the means to escape.

VLM 14y ago

My advice to the kids or the weak willed reading either the article or the HN commentary is to study the wikipedia article for "survivorship bias" and think really hard about how if you're only "beginning things" in your 20s and "building things" in 30s etc then you're doing it horribly wrong. For a small fraction of people who are very lucky this is almost useful, but everyone else needs be able to handle what could negatively be described as rebuilding after disaster or positively described as lifelong learning. You shouldn't stop "beginning" until you're dead, not on your 30th birthday or whatever. Never stop "beginning". Always be resilient... Ask any "old" person, eventually, you're gonna crash and burn even if you think you're conservative. What really separates the winners from the losers is how you react when at the bottom, not when peaking or at the top... Another thing worth considering is living in the world, not in a plan, although goals are OK. A plan is nice, but as an engineer I assure you that physical reality follows its laws, not your plan, and you'd best get used to living in the world instead of in a plan. Not that planning as an abstract concept is always a waste of time, it just usually is. Goals are good and are not detailed plans. A goal is something like meet the ideal spouse and live happily with them. A plan has ridiculous metrics and set pointless scheduled firm dates, like meet spouse at exactly age 26, married by 28, squirt out precisely 2.1 kids by 32, etc. Plans are doomed to failure and unhappiness, goals on the other hand are OK. Finally a really good piece of advice is broaden your horizons and question your definitions, especially if the definitions don't benefit you and come from people making a profit off you. "Kids" think the definition of socializing is staying up all night drinking until you vomit and make a fool of yourself then miss work the next day. Therefore the 20s are when you should socialize. Uh, no, you need a new definition of socialize and you should be doin it all your life not just 20s or until your liver gives out. I was ignorant too, and I survived and improved since, so don't feel bad if you have to do the same.

pm90 14y ago
This sounds like really good advice, thanks for sharing!

kghose 14y ago

Don't waste your twenty minutes reading this article. Go play with your spouse/children/cat/dog/friends for twenty minutes instead and then read the desiderata (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desiderata http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desiderata) for instructions on how to live life at any age.

michaelochurch 14y ago

Not buying the article. I agree that no one should waste 10 years of his life-- that seems obvious-- but the article itself is a mix of pseudoscience and anecdote. In fact, the people who seem least to be "wasting" their 20s-- the ones in IBD analyst programs and MBA programs-- are the ones losing their creativity the fastest. If you play the corporate game, creative atrophy sets in, and it's a rapid process.

saryant 14y ago
This is what I realized. I did what a "successful" college grad is supposed to do: I joined a large company right after college and started a career. Problem was, I got screwed around by them and quit after six months (finishing up my two weeks notice right now). Part of this is that I picked a bad company to join (they had me filling out dozens of meeting invites in Outlook and doing SAP data entry when I was supposedly hired as a developer) but I also spent those six months really thinking about what I wanted to do on a day-to-day basis and where I wanted to end up in 5, 10, 20 years. I realized that I wasn't creating anything, I was just following a process. Filling out database table request forms and bashing my head over trying to explain a cursor to a supposedly senior developer. So I quit after saving up about a year's living expenses and I'm going to use the next year to figure something out, not sure what just yet. I've been kicking around a few ideas and we're going to start talking to potential customers at the end of the month. I'll probably end up burning through my savings and going out to find another job a year from now but at least I'll have tried. If I don't do something creative I feel like I'm going to forget how. Five years from now I think I'll regret not trying more than I'll enjoy the fruits of a five-year-old career.

Kaivo 14y ago

I didn't read the article other than the comparison with all those great minds. I don't feel that concerned when it comes to comparing myself to such persons. I mean, should I have been the next Einstein, I would have know before reaching my 20s. Nevertheless, I'm a very curious person, thanks to my dad. I want to understand and know many many things (not everything), and for the last year I've spent most of my time learning, reading interesting articles here and there, following classes, reading the f*g manual. Eight months ago, I never had touched Linux. Last week, I installed Arch Linux. I didn't know how to program a year ago. Now I touched SQL, VBA, C/C++, Python, Haskell. I'm no expert in any of these language, but I do my best to learn a handful of languages before sticking to one/a few. I try to learn something new every day, and I don't even feel like I'm trying. All the information just flows at me. For each new thing I understand, there are 1000s more questions that appear. I don't feel like I'm wasting my 20s even though I'm not building the next Microsoft. I'm constantly learning and I couldn't be happier about it. I feel like I'm doing a ton of investment for my future, and I'll never stop learning.

dodyg 14y ago

How about this - don't waste you time following what other people think a fulfilled life should be.

um304 14y ago

I got bit depressed when I read the article, but was cheered up when I read the comments here. You guys are awesome!!! I think a better article could have been "Don't waste your day". Who has seen tomorrow, and they are talking about planning a whole decade! Keep your expectations low, work hard, give more than you take and be grateful. If you are to become next Einstein, your destiny will find you by itself. That's the best I can think for myself.

cafard 14y ago

I find it hard to take seriously any information coming from a domain called "artofmanliness.com". I find myself wondering whether the Art in question is Donovan, Garfunkel, or Carney.

nsxwolf 14y ago

Too late for me, I guess. Oh well.

deleted 14y ago

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timinman 14y ago

I'm nearly done with my thirties - a time when many of us start to feel uncomfortable about how much time we have left to make our mark. I didn't make a ton of money or change the whole world in my twenties, but I did marry a great woman early (at 20), and begin to raise 3 great kids. I feel good about those decisions, but won't settle, I still feel that I've more growing up to do and greater days are ahead.

snake_plissken 14y ago

god damn stop it with these articles! they are based on pointless and handpicked quips, and frankly they just drop my brain chemical levels and depress me until i go out to lunch for tasty burritos in 3 hours. and the god damn brain formation things PLEASE neuroscience is at the most 10 years old we have no idea what the brain is doing and won't until we monitor brains the way we do now for a generation.

kingkawn 14y ago

As long as you're willing to go through the early phases of sucking at things during adulthood you'll be fine. Most people are uncomfortable sucking at things any other time than childhood. Get rid of that limitation and your whole life is time to grow not just coast.

AutoCorrect 14y ago

There is no such thing as 'wasting your life'. You live every second of your life, how you live it is up to you, and to a smaller (but not always small) extent up to the circumstances around you. Every decision you make (or don't) pushes you in a direction, sort of a life vector. You can change the direction and the size of the vector, but it's yours, no matter what, and it's not a waste. Even if you live your entire life and leave not a ripple behind you, your life still has worth. Don't read articles like this and let them make you feel bad about what you think you haven't accomplished.

ececconi 14y ago

This article would have been much better if it started with the second section without referencing society's greatest outliers.

enobrev 14y ago

I proud to say that a) I have some regrets from my twenties and b) none of them have a damned thing to do with Albert Einstein or Bill Gates.

known 14y ago

"You are a product of your environment." --Clement Stone

nicholas73 14y ago

I would consider my 20's to be wasted, but yet I'm definitely not the same man I was at 20. So was it really wasted? I have little to show on paper or as paper, but I learned much about myself and others so that I could make better decisions later in life. Basically, I made a ton of mistakes and had my mid-life crisis early. I hope it will be worth the investment. I also improved my social skills, had a long term relationship, taught myself programming, learn how to have investment failures, quit my job, tried a few jobs, understood my family dynamics, faced my emotional issues from childhood, developed an athletic body, earned a black belt, learned proper nutrition, etc. So were my 20's wasted? Only because I wish I was 20 again and had more fun. But I'm told 30 is pretty good too. Edit: I also completed an MS degree during this time, but funny, I completely forgot to include it. It wasn't intentional. The truth is that I don't find it as valuable nor much of an accomplishment as it was just falling into a path not chosen consciously.