6 ms·

Who is this device for? It's a poor tablet due to its lackluster touch eco system, battery life, size, and weight. And it's a mediocre laptop that can't stay up

by bitsoda 14y ago

Who is this device for? It's a poor tablet due to its lackluster touch eco system, battery life, size, and weight. And it's a mediocre laptop that can't stay upright on an actual person's lap, and has a relatively small display for a computer that is meant to be placed on a flat surface. Furthermore, the pre-loaded software takes up 41 GB of HD space, making the more expensive $999 option the only feasible choice. I don't get it. Why not spend that $999 buying a budget laptop that can outperform the Surface Pro, and an inexpensive tablet like a Nexus 7/10 or iPad mini? Design is about making compromises. Unfortunately for Microsoft, they chose the wrong ones.

purplelobster 14y ago
Because it's basically an ultrabook with a convenient tablet form factor. Honestly that's precisely what I need. I don't want one device for productivity and one for play, which is why I'd never buy an iPad. I'd prefer Linux, but I think Microsoft has done a good job with Win8, it's perfect for a device like this.
- daliusd 14y ago
  I think it is too small for productivity. Yes, it is possible to work with small screen. I have experience working with 11, 13, 15 and bigger screens (each at least a year) and have achieved quite good results with each but 11-inch and less is not big enough for productivity. I encountered two problems: 1) some programs wants to use more screen. That's especially relevant for various IDEs and image manipulation programs. If you can work with simple text editor and command line, you are happy then. 2) too small keyboard. The smaller screen the smaller keyboard. Difference is 5-10% in typing speed but it is difference. Maybe for small person it is perfect size. Meanwhile I'm very happy with 13 inch ultrabook. Overall it is geek's wet dream to have device that is perfect size and perfect configuration at any moment. "Ubuntu for Android" (http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/android http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/android) is the same dream in different form. Currently I am as far from this dream as possible: 3 computers, several tables and several smartphones.
  - Shorel 14y ago
    My own dream is something like Google glasses combined with some gloves that let me type like I was using a keyboard, while walking in the street with my hands naturally on my sides.
  - purplelobster 14y ago
    Agreed, but 95% of the time I'm hooked into an external monitor/keyboard etc. When I unplug, I prefer mobility over productivity but it's obviously a very fine line. For example, I must be able to type at 80% of top speed, and I need to be able to use a text editor like Sublime Text 2. I wouldn't expect to use Visual Studio necessarily.
elorant 14y ago
Because a laptop is not as portable as this thing and a 7" tablet can't compare with this in terms of performance. I for one find it a brilliant device. Of course it has its issues but it's the first version, with time it will get better. I don't think it's competitive to iPads and not only because it's twice expensive. It is a whole new breed of computers which eventually will make laptops obsolete.
mariusmg 14y ago
For me. I like to use it as a tablet for the brilliant gesture based UI , as a ultrabook when i have to reply to a email and to plug in a monitor + real keyboard (104 keys or bust) when i'm doing development in Visual Studio.
- adamors 14y ago
  Visual Studio on a 10 inch screen? Are you kidding me?
  - dangrossman 14y ago
    > plug in a monitor Surface will happily drive a 2560x1440 30" IPS panel display. Plenty of real-estate for Visual Studio.
    - adamors 14y ago
      So will a desktop. Why spend $1000 then?
      - mariusmg 14y ago
        Cause you can't take your desktop with you and code when you're visiting grandma.
        adamors 14y ago
        But you can an external monitor, right?
        Blara 14y ago
        It's better to take a surface + external monitor than a desktop + external monitor though
        adamors 14y ago
glass- 14y ago
> the pre-loaded software takes up 41 GB of HD space The formatted drive has a binary capacity of 119 GB. 89 of which are available. You can free up 7.8 GB by using the built-in tool to transfer the recovery partition to a USB drive. The remaining space is 10.5GB for Windows, 4GB pagefile, 3.5GB hibernation file and 2.5GB for Office. On the 64GB model, once you remove the recovery partition you have around 40GB of space available.
jamesaguilar 14y ago
You know, in the windows ecosystem, 999 isn't even really budget any more. You can buy a gaming ultra portable for that much.
wisty 14y ago
People don't use computers anymore. They use tablets. This is a tablet, which can double as a computer for reading .doc files, and running .exe programs. Remember when people used to buy laptops, and people like us used to say "don't be stupid, just buy a powerful white-box for half the price; it's going to spend 90% of its time on your desk anyway ... and if you really need portability just buy a cheap laptop as a second computer."? It's all happening again, and Microsoft has just realised it got left behind.
- andrewfelix 14y ago
  "This is a tablet" It beggars belief that Microsoft could consider this competitive as a tablet. As a laptop, the power and price point makes sense. But as a tablet it's thick, heavy, has very poor battery life and 99% of meaningful Windows software wasn't optimised for touch. I was actually considering purchasing one of these. But watching reviewers attempt to use this thing as a tablet depresses me. I'm probably dreaming, but I would love to see Microsoft just make a really nice touch screen laptop with the same design aesthetic as the Surface.
- pkorzeniewski 14y ago
  I can't think about one person I know that use tablet for any serious stuff, me included, it's just used for checking mails, reading ebooks and playing games. Even then I think everyone prefers surfing on the web using computer rather than on a small screen, not to mention playing more advanced games or using office suites, which are widely used even by 'common' users. So saying that people don't use computers anymore is in my opinion a bit over the top.
  - yareally 14y ago
    I agree. If you live in the online world of the Apple or Android forums (or even many tech sites/blogs), it would appear that computers are "dead" if you use them as an indication of usage. However, in the real world outside of the forums that are enamored by the latest and greatest toys put out by tablet makers, I think their real world usage is far less than observed. Me personally, I get annoyed at having to use my phone (Galaxy Nexus) or tablet (2 HP Touchpads and a Nexus 7) for more than just checking mail, sending short IMs or SMS, or quickly viewing a few web pages. Doing much beyond that just requires much more time than if I did it on a PC with a keyboard and mouse. Those devices are just a way to get by when I can't be at my computer versus a replacement. I really just have them for development, but they're also fun toys to hack around on. The allure of 3 large monitors tied to a nice desktop PC is one that I don't think I can pull myself away from either for real work. Tablets for productivity just feel more like a form of masochism if one to use it to write code on even with options out there[1]. If i desperately need to do something right away, sure, but most of the time, my laptop is with me if I also have my tablet. If I didn't have the tablets, I wouldn't miss them. They're just an expensive toy to me at least. Unrelated to the above, but I think I would go for the Surface RT over the Pro now that it's been "jailbroke"[2] so you can cross compile any opensource app for it[3] and many already have been compiled[4]. Battery life is better and if you're a developer or power user, you can have a ton of fun hacking around on it now that you can self sign and compiled native apps that aren't metro. [1]https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.aide.ui https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.aide.ui [2]http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2092158 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2092158 [3]http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2096820 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2096820 [4]http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2092348 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2092348
yaantc 14y ago
Agreed, the small N7 plus a laptop is also my choice. But this is very personal opinion, I'm sure there will be others who like it. Still, I doubt there will be enough to make this a commercial success in the end. The initial reviews are not so good. This class of product reminds me of the joke on sea planes: they're neither good planes nor good boats. Here, I fear it's just not possible to be a good tablet (light, long battery) and a good laptop (larger screen, more powerful). As far as I'm concerned, and although I initially liked the idea, I'm now convinced it's hopeless just because of the screen size: I like it small on a tablet (7" is perfect to me) and larger on a laptop (13.3" minimum). So no hybrid can satisfy me. But again, to each his own. Even if such products don't go mainstream, I'm sure some will stick around to serve the people who're happy with a single device and can live with the necessary trade-offs.

by bitsoda 14y ago

purplelobster 14y ago

Because it's basically an ultrabook with a convenient tablet form factor. Honestly that's precisely what I need. I don't want one device for productivity and one for play, which is why I'd never buy an iPad. I'd prefer Linux, but I think Microsoft has done a good job with Win8, it's perfect for a device like this.

daliusd 14y ago
I think it is too small for productivity. Yes, it is possible to work with small screen. I have experience working with 11, 13, 15 and bigger screens (each at least a year) and have achieved quite good results with each but 11-inch and less is not big enough for productivity. I encountered two problems: 1) some programs wants to use more screen. That's especially relevant for various IDEs and image manipulation programs. If you can work with simple text editor and command line, you are happy then. 2) too small keyboard. The smaller screen the smaller keyboard. Difference is 5-10% in typing speed but it is difference. Maybe for small person it is perfect size. Meanwhile I'm very happy with 13 inch ultrabook. Overall it is geek's wet dream to have device that is perfect size and perfect configuration at any moment. "Ubuntu for Android" (http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/android http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/android) is the same dream in different form. Currently I am as far from this dream as possible: 3 computers, several tables and several smartphones.
- Shorel 14y ago
  My own dream is something like Google glasses combined with some gloves that let me type like I was using a keyboard, while walking in the street with my hands naturally on my sides.
- purplelobster 14y ago
  Agreed, but 95% of the time I'm hooked into an external monitor/keyboard etc. When I unplug, I prefer mobility over productivity but it's obviously a very fine line. For example, I must be able to type at 80% of top speed, and I need to be able to use a text editor like Sublime Text 2. I wouldn't expect to use Visual Studio necessarily.

elorant 14y ago

Because a laptop is not as portable as this thing and a 7" tablet can't compare with this in terms of performance. I for one find it a brilliant device. Of course it has its issues but it's the first version, with time it will get better. I don't think it's competitive to iPads and not only because it's twice expensive. It is a whole new breed of computers which eventually will make laptops obsolete.

mariusmg 14y ago

For me. I like to use it as a tablet for the brilliant gesture based UI , as a ultrabook when i have to reply to a email and to plug in a monitor + real keyboard (104 keys or bust) when i'm doing development in Visual Studio.

adamors 14y ago
Visual Studio on a 10 inch screen? Are you kidding me?
- dangrossman 14y ago
  > plug in a monitor Surface will happily drive a 2560x1440 30" IPS panel display. Plenty of real-estate for Visual Studio.
  - adamors 14y ago
    So will a desktop. Why spend $1000 then?
    - mariusmg 14y ago
      Cause you can't take your desktop with you and code when you're visiting grandma.
      - adamors 14y ago
        But you can an external monitor, right?
        Blara 14y ago
        It's better to take a surface + external monitor than a desktop + external monitor though
        adamors 14y ago

glass- 14y ago

> the pre-loaded software takes up 41 GB of HD space The formatted drive has a binary capacity of 119 GB. 89 of which are available. You can free up 7.8 GB by using the built-in tool to transfer the recovery partition to a USB drive. The remaining space is 10.5GB for Windows, 4GB pagefile, 3.5GB hibernation file and 2.5GB for Office. On the 64GB model, once you remove the recovery partition you have around 40GB of space available.

jamesaguilar 14y ago

You know, in the windows ecosystem, 999 isn't even really budget any more. You can buy a gaming ultra portable for that much.

wisty 14y ago

People don't use computers anymore. They use tablets. This is a tablet, which can double as a computer for reading .doc files, and running .exe programs. Remember when people used to buy laptops, and people like us used to say "don't be stupid, just buy a powerful white-box for half the price; it's going to spend 90% of its time on your desk anyway ... and if you really need portability just buy a cheap laptop as a second computer."? It's all happening again, and Microsoft has just realised it got left behind.

andrewfelix 14y ago
"This is a tablet" It beggars belief that Microsoft could consider this competitive as a tablet. As a laptop, the power and price point makes sense. But as a tablet it's thick, heavy, has very poor battery life and 99% of meaningful Windows software wasn't optimised for touch. I was actually considering purchasing one of these. But watching reviewers attempt to use this thing as a tablet depresses me. I'm probably dreaming, but I would love to see Microsoft just make a really nice touch screen laptop with the same design aesthetic as the Surface.
pkorzeniewski 14y ago
I can't think about one person I know that use tablet for any serious stuff, me included, it's just used for checking mails, reading ebooks and playing games. Even then I think everyone prefers surfing on the web using computer rather than on a small screen, not to mention playing more advanced games or using office suites, which are widely used even by 'common' users. So saying that people don't use computers anymore is in my opinion a bit over the top.
- yareally 14y ago
  I agree. If you live in the online world of the Apple or Android forums (or even many tech sites/blogs), it would appear that computers are "dead" if you use them as an indication of usage. However, in the real world outside of the forums that are enamored by the latest and greatest toys put out by tablet makers, I think their real world usage is far less than observed. Me personally, I get annoyed at having to use my phone (Galaxy Nexus) or tablet (2 HP Touchpads and a Nexus 7) for more than just checking mail, sending short IMs or SMS, or quickly viewing a few web pages. Doing much beyond that just requires much more time than if I did it on a PC with a keyboard and mouse. Those devices are just a way to get by when I can't be at my computer versus a replacement. I really just have them for development, but they're also fun toys to hack around on. The allure of 3 large monitors tied to a nice desktop PC is one that I don't think I can pull myself away from either for real work. Tablets for productivity just feel more like a form of masochism if one to use it to write code on even with options out there[1]. If i desperately need to do something right away, sure, but most of the time, my laptop is with me if I also have my tablet. If I didn't have the tablets, I wouldn't miss them. They're just an expensive toy to me at least. Unrelated to the above, but I think I would go for the Surface RT over the Pro now that it's been "jailbroke"[2] so you can cross compile any opensource app for it[3] and many already have been compiled[4]. Battery life is better and if you're a developer or power user, you can have a ton of fun hacking around on it now that you can self sign and compiled native apps that aren't metro. [1]https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.aide.ui https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.aide.ui [2]http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2092158 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2092158 [3]http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2096820 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2096820 [4]http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2092348 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2092348

yaantc 14y ago

Agreed, the small N7 plus a laptop is also my choice. But this is very personal opinion, I'm sure there will be others who like it. Still, I doubt there will be enough to make this a commercial success in the end. The initial reviews are not so good. This class of product reminds me of the joke on sea planes: they're neither good planes nor good boats. Here, I fear it's just not possible to be a good tablet (light, long battery) and a good laptop (larger screen, more powerful). As far as I'm concerned, and although I initially liked the idea, I'm now convinced it's hopeless just because of the screen size: I like it small on a tablet (7" is perfect to me) and larger on a laptop (13.3" minimum). So no hybrid can satisfy me. But again, to each his own. Even if such products don't go mainstream, I'm sure some will stick around to serve the people who're happy with a single device and can live with the necessary trade-offs.