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It seems to me that the character of the wizard borrows a bit from the clergy. If you sit through a Catholic or Episcopalian mass, with its incense, music, comm

It seems to me that the character of the wizard borrows a bit from the clergy. If you sit through a Catholic or Episcopalian mass, with its incense, music, communion, and ritual incantations, it certainly has the feeling of a magical rite. Also, believers do think that these rites have the ability to effect the world in extraordinary ways outside the normal rules of cause and effect (heal the sick, cast out demons, etc.); so the rites could be said to be magical. The fact that priests do not marry also adds to the case.

anamax 18y ago
Unmarried (and presumably celibate) priests isn't universal, even in the "older" churches. For example, at least one Eastern Orthodox church allows married priests. (IIRC, they have to get married before they get ordained.) Rabbis are almost required to be married.
patio11 18y ago
Little known fact: some Catholic priests are permitted to marry. Theology, like programming, has edge cases. Here's an example: you're an Anglican. Anglicans have apostolic succession -- i.e. if you're a priest, you were admitted by a bishop, who was in turn once a priest admitted by a bishop, who was in turn ... by St. Peter who was chosen to lead the Church by Christ Himself. Despite the fact that Anglicans are not Catholics, and do things differently (such as permitting priests to marry), under Catholic theology their claim to holy orders is good if a little misguided. But what if one who is married converts to Catholicism? They're still a priest until they forsake it. Their marriage was licit when they entered into it. We're famously touchy about dissolving marriages -- either it was illicit when it was entered into (perhaps due to reasons that were not discovered yet) and thus requiring an annulment, or its good and binding until death. Which means married Anglican priests who convert to Catholicism (slightly more complicated -- you need the bishop to sign off on it) are now married Catholic priests.
- fh 18y ago
  > Which means married Anglican priests who convert to Catholicism (slightly more complicated -- you need the bishop to sign off on it) are now married Catholic priests. If you are correct, then by the same trick a woman can become a Catholic priests, but I don't think the rules of theology are quite as literal as that. While I don't doubt that such a person is married, and Catholic, and a priest, I doubt that he would be considered a Catholic priest. Either that, or God itself is trapped in a logical paradox and the universe explodes.
  - patio11 18y ago
    >> I doubt that he would be considered a Catholic priest >> For the first time in my life I get to say "What do you want, signed authorization from the Pope?" and it is actually responsive! The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith published in July 1980: *[T]he Holy See has specified that this exception to the rule of celibacy is granted in favor of these individual persons, and should not be understood as implying any change in the Church's conviction of the value of priestly celibacy, which will remain the rule for future candidates for the priesthood from [persons converting from Anglicanism to Catholicism]."
- cpr 18y ago
  Actually, Anglicans don't have apostolic succession; all Anglican ordinations were declared null and void in the late 1800's by the Pope at the time. (They did examine the case very carefully--note that there are plenty of non-uniate Christians who have succession.)
  - patio11 18y ago
    Oof, I stand corrected.

anamax 18y ago

Unmarried (and presumably celibate) priests isn't universal, even in the "older" churches. For example, at least one Eastern Orthodox church allows married priests. (IIRC, they have to get married before they get ordained.) Rabbis are almost required to be married.

patio11 18y ago

Little known fact: some Catholic priests are permitted to marry. Theology, like programming, has edge cases. Here's an example: you're an Anglican. Anglicans have apostolic succession -- i.e. if you're a priest, you were admitted by a bishop, who was in turn once a priest admitted by a bishop, who was in turn ... by St. Peter who was chosen to lead the Church by Christ Himself. Despite the fact that Anglicans are not Catholics, and do things differently (such as permitting priests to marry), under Catholic theology their claim to holy orders is good if a little misguided. But what if one who is married converts to Catholicism? They're still a priest until they forsake it. Their marriage was licit when they entered into it. We're famously touchy about dissolving marriages -- either it was illicit when it was entered into (perhaps due to reasons that were not discovered yet) and thus requiring an annulment, or its good and binding until death. Which means married Anglican priests who convert to Catholicism (slightly more complicated -- you need the bishop to sign off on it) are now married Catholic priests.

fh 18y ago
> Which means married Anglican priests who convert to Catholicism (slightly more complicated -- you need the bishop to sign off on it) are now married Catholic priests. If you are correct, then by the same trick a woman can become a Catholic priests, but I don't think the rules of theology are quite as literal as that. While I don't doubt that such a person is married, and Catholic, and a priest, I doubt that he would be considered a Catholic priest. Either that, or God itself is trapped in a logical paradox and the universe explodes.
- patio11 18y ago
  >> I doubt that he would be considered a Catholic priest >> For the first time in my life I get to say "What do you want, signed authorization from the Pope?" and it is actually responsive! The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith published in July 1980: *[T]he Holy See has specified that this exception to the rule of celibacy is granted in favor of these individual persons, and should not be understood as implying any change in the Church's conviction of the value of priestly celibacy, which will remain the rule for future candidates for the priesthood from [persons converting from Anglicanism to Catholicism]."
cpr 18y ago
Actually, Anglicans don't have apostolic succession; all Anglican ordinations were declared null and void in the late 1800's by the Pope at the time. (They did examine the case very carefully--note that there are plenty of non-uniate Christians who have succession.)
- patio11 18y ago
  Oof, I stand corrected.