4 ms·

I'm not defending the guy at all. My point is that this general scenario -- upset some person with a certain amount of power, who then makes your life miserabl

by smky80 14y ago

I'm not defending the guy at all. My point is that this general scenario -- upset some person with a certain amount of power, who then makes your life miserable -- happens quite frequently to men as well. The title of the post is that "it sucks to be female" and I don't agree that follows from the post. The marriage comment was mostly a joke, but it does illustrate the point that Western women enjoy a lot of "priviledge" themselves. It shouldn't need to be said, but I'll add that this doesn't make sexual harassment acceptable.

mnicole 14y ago
I'd be interested in seeing this list of privileges.
- smky80 14y ago
  For starters, women live about 6 years longer than men [0], and currently make up about 67% of college graduates [1] , which is partly due to affirmative action. I can't find a great link, but I believe it's been projected that women are or will own a greater than 50% of total wealth in the Western world in the next decade or so. Divorce court isn't too friendly to men either. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expec... [1] http://www.womenmovingmillions.org/how-we-do-it/facts/ http://www.womenmovingmillions.org/how-we-do-it/facts/
  - mnicole 14y ago
    I questioned responding to this at all because privilege is a social aspect, not a biological one. An extra six years of life isn't exactly a benefit because those extra six years aren't added to my childhood or adulthood, but at the end of my life when I'm waning. But if we're going to talk about biology, we can talk about the wonderful stuff most women have the pleasure of dealing with on a monthly basis for the majority of their lives, we can talk about childbirth and the expectation of what constitutes 'a woman' (which is really a mix of both of these things) and we can talk about how it's more likely a girl will be judged/ridiculed based on her appearance. Your second link also says that more women graduate high school than their male counterparts, and that 70% of college Valedictorians are women. Does that have anything to do with affirmative action, which was put in place to create equality to begin with? It's projected we're going to own greater than 50% of the total wealth in the West for the first time in history? Fantastic, because we're greater than 50% of the population. I don't get this point at all. You're reaching for statistics here, and I'm not even going to touch the divorce thing. I'll leave that for Reddit and Men's Rights, plus I'm biased because my father abandoned our family and three of my best friends growing up were equally raised by single mothers.
    - smky80 14y ago
      So would you agree that the current achievement gap between women and men in school is a social/cultural bias or privilege? Or would you argue instead that women are just smarter? Sorry to hear about your father.
      - mnicole 14y ago
        I don't want to make the statement that women are smarter as it may be more related to what each gender accomplishes with their education. Men are physically more capable at labor-intensive roles that don't necessarily need the type of education currently provided in K-12 outside of vocational schools and shop classes. That doesn't mean they're not smart, it just means they may know what they want out of life and know what it takes to do it (i.e. taking over his father's business). I'd love to see our education system provide both academic- and career-oriented pathways that bring back apprenticeships. While I think women would still take more academic courses than their male counterparts, I believe it would really help alleviate gender-based assumptions about intelligence and capabilities.
        smky80 14y ago
        We can agree to disagree. If you're going to put forward the view above though, you can't really complain if someone were to argue that the lack of women in tech is more due to their own interests and aptitude than it is widespread sexism and "male privilege". I'm not arguing this subject, except to say that I don't think the OP makes a good argument that "it sucks to be female" in this industry.
        mnicole 14y ago
        Interests and aptitudes are relative to pre-determined ideas of capability and who is already in those fields, who we imagine when we think about those roles and who is therefore inspired the most by them. Women had no issue pulling their weight in manufacturing and computer engineering when we needed them to during times of crisis. Blog post after blog post show and surprise readers with images of women working on airplanes and doing technical work in factories. Somehow, even today, the idea of women not only taking these jobs, but doing so in mass numbers and enjoying the work impresses people. I think the fact that we're having these conversations at all - and consistently so - signals that it can "suck to be a female in this industry".

by smky80 14y ago

mnicole 14y ago

I'd be interested in seeing this list of privileges.

smky80 14y ago
For starters, women live about 6 years longer than men [0], and currently make up about 67% of college graduates [1] , which is partly due to affirmative action. I can't find a great link, but I believe it's been projected that women are or will own a greater than 50% of total wealth in the Western world in the next decade or so. Divorce court isn't too friendly to men either. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expec... [1] http://www.womenmovingmillions.org/how-we-do-it/facts/ http://www.womenmovingmillions.org/how-we-do-it/facts/
- mnicole 14y ago
  I questioned responding to this at all because privilege is a social aspect, not a biological one. An extra six years of life isn't exactly a benefit because those extra six years aren't added to my childhood or adulthood, but at the end of my life when I'm waning. But if we're going to talk about biology, we can talk about the wonderful stuff most women have the pleasure of dealing with on a monthly basis for the majority of their lives, we can talk about childbirth and the expectation of what constitutes 'a woman' (which is really a mix of both of these things) and we can talk about how it's more likely a girl will be judged/ridiculed based on her appearance. Your second link also says that more women graduate high school than their male counterparts, and that 70% of college Valedictorians are women. Does that have anything to do with affirmative action, which was put in place to create equality to begin with? It's projected we're going to own greater than 50% of the total wealth in the West for the first time in history? Fantastic, because we're greater than 50% of the population. I don't get this point at all. You're reaching for statistics here, and I'm not even going to touch the divorce thing. I'll leave that for Reddit and Men's Rights, plus I'm biased because my father abandoned our family and three of my best friends growing up were equally raised by single mothers.
  - smky80 14y ago
    So would you agree that the current achievement gap between women and men in school is a social/cultural bias or privilege? Or would you argue instead that women are just smarter? Sorry to hear about your father.
    - mnicole 14y ago
      I don't want to make the statement that women are smarter as it may be more related to what each gender accomplishes with their education. Men are physically more capable at labor-intensive roles that don't necessarily need the type of education currently provided in K-12 outside of vocational schools and shop classes. That doesn't mean they're not smart, it just means they may know what they want out of life and know what it takes to do it (i.e. taking over his father's business). I'd love to see our education system provide both academic- and career-oriented pathways that bring back apprenticeships. While I think women would still take more academic courses than their male counterparts, I believe it would really help alleviate gender-based assumptions about intelligence and capabilities.
      - smky80 14y ago
        We can agree to disagree. If you're going to put forward the view above though, you can't really complain if someone were to argue that the lack of women in tech is more due to their own interests and aptitude than it is widespread sexism and "male privilege". I'm not arguing this subject, except to say that I don't think the OP makes a good argument that "it sucks to be female" in this industry.
        mnicole 14y ago
        Interests and aptitudes are relative to pre-determined ideas of capability and who is already in those fields, who we imagine when we think about those roles and who is therefore inspired the most by them. Women had no issue pulling their weight in manufacturing and computer engineering when we needed them to during times of crisis. Blog post after blog post show and surprise readers with images of women working on airplanes and doing technical work in factories. Somehow, even today, the idea of women not only taking these jobs, but doing so in mass numbers and enjoying the work impresses people. I think the fact that we're having these conversations at all - and consistently so - signals that it can "suck to be a female in this industry".