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I do this. I have been since about 2004. I don't make eBooks though. I'm a programmer so I make software, usually things to help with web-design, and then sell

I do this. I have been since about 2004. I don't make eBooks though. I'm a programmer so I make software, usually things to help with web-design, and then sell it using a similar site format. Its been my sole source of income, and its not a bad living, although I personally know people who are making $1-$10 million a year in profit from sites like this. They're not one-man shops though, they usually have about 5-10 employees to help run everything, but its still very profitable. Digital goods cost pretty much $0 to copy and distribute, so the profit margins are amazing. It really amazes me how a lot of people, especially in a community as open-minded as this, are quick to label everybody who has a strange-looking site a scammer. I use the salesletter format for most of my sites, and it works. I don't care what it looks like as long as it gets results. As for the Parrot guy, I know nothing about him so I have no idea if he really does ignore refund requests. I use http://www.clickbank.com/ http://www.clickbank.com/ as my payment processor, and they handle all that. They honor all refund requests, with or without an explanation, so I couldn't even deny one if I wanted to. I'd be happy to answer any questions anybody has about this market. It's basically an evolution of the direct mail market from before the Internet. Its looks a little strange to the Web 2.0 people here, but its a valid market.

immad 18y ago
Does the sales letter format really convert better than a normal site format (menu items at the top and a big buy link at the top and nice layering). I looked at the parrot site and I had a hard time finding the buy button.
- lionheart 18y ago
  Amazingly, it does. Trust me, I'm as surprised as you are. I've tried both designs, run split tests, the salesletter always wins. I know plenty of other people who have also run tests, same result. I have no idea why. Maybe people like to read? The same tests also show that the less graphics the better. You'll notice that the Parrot Secrets site has almost none. Not even a logo or a header graphic. That's on purpose. The tests I've seen show that fancy graphics just destroy the conversion rate on a site like this. I have no idea why this is the case. But I'm going to do what works, not what looks fancy.
  - comatose_kid 18y ago
    Could it be because a significant percentage of them are on lower bandwidth communications? Did you qualify your niche the same way - by reading newsgroups?
    - lionheart 18y ago
      I don't think so, I'd have to check my server stats but I think that most of them have high speed internet access. And I never did any research or anything to get into my niche. I found myself helping my friends to set up simple websites and I realized that other people might want the same help. I'm not a writer, so instead I just wrote software for the same group. It worked out for me.
  - prawn 18y ago
    Related: have an informational site that is monetised by AdSense. It's not that attractive, but was doing OK. One day, I upgraded the design to make it look more slick, and the CTR dropped to half of what it was. Left it for a week just in case it was a single-day anomaly, but it wasn't. Switched back to the ugly bland design and CTR jumped back to where it had been.
- garyrichardson 18y ago
  Yes, it does work. The long copy is about building excitement. You're trying to stream the user down to the buy button -- but make them read the testimonials and the bonuses so when they get to the call to action, they'll have no reason not to buy. The key to it working is getting interested parties to read. If you don't care about parrots, no amount of copy is going to convince you to buy the book. If you've got a problem parrot, you'll be hooked after the second paragraph. When I used to work for IMC (http://www.marketingtips.com http://www.marketingtips.com -- company that teaches these techniques), I remember reading an internal news letter about a successful client. The site was about fitness/building muscle -- something I was interested in at the time. I clicked to his website and started reading. I knew about all the tricks in the sales letter, yet I still found myself wanting to buy his product. I 'snapped out of the trance' and didn't buy his ebook, but that was the day I realized long copy really works.
  - bprater 18y ago
    Bingo. That "trance" is exactly what good long-form salesletters do. That's why they out-convert anything else. It's hacking for humans, and it works.
  - Flemlord 18y ago
    Are there any books on the subject of writing good marketing letters that you could recommend? If not, is there a specific name for the technique that I could Google?
    - garyrichardson 18y ago
      I don't know of any books that you could buy from Amazon; I learned 'on the job'. It kinda hurts me to do this, but check out 'the course' from http://www.marketingtips.com http://www.marketingtips.com.
    - wallflower 18y ago
      Jay Abraham might be the reason why so many sales-pitch websites look the same (giveaway: red text headlines) Example inspired by him: http://salsadancesecrets.com http://salsadancesecrets.com Some of the best sales letters I've seen are direct mail. For example, get on the Nightingale-Conant mailing list. Their 'This audio program will change your life' letters are supreme examples of the genre. And once you get on their list, I think you will get more examples in your mailbox (BottomLine Personal, Jay Abraham)
shafqat 18y ago
What kind of software allows you to sell via the newsletter format? I though the reason that format works was because the buyer were non-techies (i.e. grandmothers who have parrots etc). Does it work on techies as well? If so, pretty amazing.
shafqat 18y ago
What kind of software allows you to sell via the newsletter format? I though the reason that format works was because the buyer were non-techies (i.e. grandmothers who have parrots etc). Does it work on techies as well? If so, pretty amazing.
- lionheart 18y ago
  I would characterize my audience as non-techies who want to become techies. Basically, the software programs I have let people create and run websites very easily. I also have some hosted solutions for those who don't even want to have their own server. That's how I started in the niche basically. I found myself helping my non-techie friends set up a simple website for themselves and figured others would need the same help too.
  - dreamz 18y ago
    what hosted solution do u suggest for digital products? and what's your email id?
bprater 18y ago
I've made hundreds of thousands of dollars selling digital products since '97. It really works. However, the challenge for folks new to the game -- is NOT the product. Product is simple. Repeat after me: don't worry about the damn product, worry about the salesletter. It is that salesletter that separates the winners and lowers. Often, it takes me longer to write the salesletter than it takes me to create the product. I jest not. And that's why we are all discussing the parrot's salesletter. I've seen many folk stumble because they can't twist their brain to write good long-form salesletters. If you want to win at this game, print out dozens of these letters, get out your pencil and highlighter and study them like your life depends on it. Follow this simple step and I promise you can make money in the info-product game. Most of you won't follow that simple step, will go out and create "the most amazing product ever", crank out a lame salesletter and won't make a nickel. Seen it over and over and over and over. And then you'll poo-poo info-product marketing the rest of your days. (Notice how you are more apt to read a post when it's short paragraphs? That's just one "hacking for humans" technique we use.)
- Jebdm 18y ago
  Actually, I just skipped to the last paragraph. Short paragraphs are one thing, but one-sentence paragraphs are just annoying. Of course, other people may react differently.
- eli_s 18y ago
  It's really weird that you say "you are more apt to read a post when it's short paragraphs". I was actually annoyed by the short paragraphs as I was reading and ended up skipping to the end.
  - ahoyhere 18y ago
    You'll never succeed at selling if you can't recognize that the world is full of people almost entirely unlike yourself.
deleted 18y ago
[deleted]

immad 18y ago

Does the sales letter format really convert better than a normal site format (menu items at the top and a big buy link at the top and nice layering). I looked at the parrot site and I had a hard time finding the buy button.

lionheart 18y ago
Amazingly, it does. Trust me, I'm as surprised as you are. I've tried both designs, run split tests, the salesletter always wins. I know plenty of other people who have also run tests, same result. I have no idea why. Maybe people like to read? The same tests also show that the less graphics the better. You'll notice that the Parrot Secrets site has almost none. Not even a logo or a header graphic. That's on purpose. The tests I've seen show that fancy graphics just destroy the conversion rate on a site like this. I have no idea why this is the case. But I'm going to do what works, not what looks fancy.
- comatose_kid 18y ago
  Could it be because a significant percentage of them are on lower bandwidth communications? Did you qualify your niche the same way - by reading newsgroups?
  - lionheart 18y ago
    I don't think so, I'd have to check my server stats but I think that most of them have high speed internet access. And I never did any research or anything to get into my niche. I found myself helping my friends to set up simple websites and I realized that other people might want the same help. I'm not a writer, so instead I just wrote software for the same group. It worked out for me.
- prawn 18y ago
  Related: have an informational site that is monetised by AdSense. It's not that attractive, but was doing OK. One day, I upgraded the design to make it look more slick, and the CTR dropped to half of what it was. Left it for a week just in case it was a single-day anomaly, but it wasn't. Switched back to the ugly bland design and CTR jumped back to where it had been.
garyrichardson 18y ago
Yes, it does work. The long copy is about building excitement. You're trying to stream the user down to the buy button -- but make them read the testimonials and the bonuses so when they get to the call to action, they'll have no reason not to buy. The key to it working is getting interested parties to read. If you don't care about parrots, no amount of copy is going to convince you to buy the book. If you've got a problem parrot, you'll be hooked after the second paragraph. When I used to work for IMC (http://www.marketingtips.com http://www.marketingtips.com -- company that teaches these techniques), I remember reading an internal news letter about a successful client. The site was about fitness/building muscle -- something I was interested in at the time. I clicked to his website and started reading. I knew about all the tricks in the sales letter, yet I still found myself wanting to buy his product. I 'snapped out of the trance' and didn't buy his ebook, but that was the day I realized long copy really works.
- bprater 18y ago
  Bingo. That "trance" is exactly what good long-form salesletters do. That's why they out-convert anything else. It's hacking for humans, and it works.
- Flemlord 18y ago
  Are there any books on the subject of writing good marketing letters that you could recommend? If not, is there a specific name for the technique that I could Google?
  - garyrichardson 18y ago
    I don't know of any books that you could buy from Amazon; I learned 'on the job'. It kinda hurts me to do this, but check out 'the course' from http://www.marketingtips.com http://www.marketingtips.com.
  - wallflower 18y ago
    Jay Abraham might be the reason why so many sales-pitch websites look the same (giveaway: red text headlines) Example inspired by him: http://salsadancesecrets.com http://salsadancesecrets.com Some of the best sales letters I've seen are direct mail. For example, get on the Nightingale-Conant mailing list. Their 'This audio program will change your life' letters are supreme examples of the genre. And once you get on their list, I think you will get more examples in your mailbox (BottomLine Personal, Jay Abraham)

shafqat 18y ago

What kind of software allows you to sell via the newsletter format? I though the reason that format works was because the buyer were non-techies (i.e. grandmothers who have parrots etc). Does it work on techies as well? If so, pretty amazing.

shafqat 18y ago

lionheart 18y ago
I would characterize my audience as non-techies who want to become techies. Basically, the software programs I have let people create and run websites very easily. I also have some hosted solutions for those who don't even want to have their own server. That's how I started in the niche basically. I found myself helping my non-techie friends set up a simple website for themselves and figured others would need the same help too.
- dreamz 18y ago
  what hosted solution do u suggest for digital products? and what's your email id?

bprater 18y ago

I've made hundreds of thousands of dollars selling digital products since '97. It really works. However, the challenge for folks new to the game -- is NOT the product. Product is simple. Repeat after me: don't worry about the damn product, worry about the salesletter. It is that salesletter that separates the winners and lowers. Often, it takes me longer to write the salesletter than it takes me to create the product. I jest not. And that's why we are all discussing the parrot's salesletter. I've seen many folk stumble because they can't twist their brain to write good long-form salesletters. If you want to win at this game, print out dozens of these letters, get out your pencil and highlighter and study them like your life depends on it. Follow this simple step and I promise you can make money in the info-product game. Most of you won't follow that simple step, will go out and create "the most amazing product ever", crank out a lame salesletter and won't make a nickel. Seen it over and over and over and over. And then you'll poo-poo info-product marketing the rest of your days. (Notice how you are more apt to read a post when it's short paragraphs? That's just one "hacking for humans" technique we use.)

Jebdm 18y ago
Actually, I just skipped to the last paragraph. Short paragraphs are one thing, but one-sentence paragraphs are just annoying. Of course, other people may react differently.
eli_s 18y ago
It's really weird that you say "you are more apt to read a post when it's short paragraphs". I was actually annoyed by the short paragraphs as I was reading and ended up skipping to the end.
- ahoyhere 18y ago
  You'll never succeed at selling if you can't recognize that the world is full of people almost entirely unlike yourself.

deleted 18y ago

[deleted]