7 ms·

Young Money – Beating “The Man” by Spending Less

27 points by cbarnsdale 14y ago

swdunlop 14y ago
Funny coming from unfinishedman.com, which is the blog people go to when they look at The Sharper Image and think "but what do you have that's REALLY frivolous?" [1] http://www.unfinishedman.com/aviator-wing-desk-inspired-by-ww2-fighter-planes/ http://www.unfinishedman.com/aviator-wing-desk-inspired-by-w... [2] http://www.unfinishedman.com/electric-hot-tub-boat-for-ultimate-relaxation/ http://www.unfinishedman.com/electric-hot-tub-boat-for-ultim... [3] http://www.unfinishedman.com/mercedes-benz-c63-amg-edition-507-coupe/ http://www.unfinishedman.com/mercedes-benz-c63-amg-edition-5...
- cbarnsdale 14y ago
  This is absolutely fair to point out. In many ways we try and act as "cool finders", and we do post a lot of hilariously expensive gear and gadgets, however... I think it's reasonable that people can still appreciate the tech without plunging themselves into debt trying to acquire it. These (admittedly) frivolous things could be an incentive, or something for people to look forward to for working smartly, if that's what makes them happy.
- gnu8 14y ago
  Plenty of irony on that site. I liked the ad for a $300 discount card disguised as another article. Promises to let you live like a "founder" by buying high priced crap from Bonobo at a discount. Very well targeted for the ycombinator crowd. http://www.unfinishedman.com/founderscard-live-like-a-prince-pay-like-a-pauper/ http://www.unfinishedman.com/founderscard-live-like-a-prince...
- RyanZAG 14y ago
  I don't think any student's credit card is going to be able to take a limited edition C63 AMG though, so probably not the same target audience.
potatolicious 14y ago
Seems like advice for a straw man. Author bases the whole diatribe on people he doesn't know around his college town. He presumes that everyone around him carrying gadgetry and nice clothes must be destroying themselves financially to do so, and can barely afford to eat. While no doubt these people actually do exist, IMO author is really reaching here. This reads like "I'm starter than all these idiots".
- RyanZAG 14y ago
  While you're correct about not generalizing, the number of students who are in debt is enormous[1]. Everyone wants to be amazingly educated with all the latest awesome gadgets, and unfortunately, it really is causing a lot of problems for society. The author really is doing a good job for himself if he is saving up some money and getting out of debt. We'll see how it goes... [1] http://www.asa.org/policy/resources/stats/default.aspx http://www.asa.org/policy/resources/stats/default.aspx
  - jiggy2011 14y ago
    I wonder if taking out a student loan puts people in a mindset where they are more willing to take on debt? If you're already borrowing some thousands of $ for an education on the basis that you will "make it back when I graduate" what's a few more hundred $ for an iphone?
    - lysol 14y ago
      That was my mindset when, after college, I got my first credit cards. What's another thousand bucks on top of 30k?
jiggy2011 14y ago
But if people stop buying crap won't the crap making and marketing companies stop hiring so many of these college grads and instead of buying iphones they can't afford they now have to buy food they can't afford?
- rapind 14y ago
  You gotta love that argument eh? It's kind of like borrowing money from a bank so that you can hire yourself to do useless work until you collapse under the increasingly large interest payments. You have to right? Because if you don't borrow money to pay yourself to do useless stuff, well then you can't afford to eat... At least this way you're buying some time to figure out a way to get someone else to borrow money and pay you.
- npsimons 14y ago
  "But if people stop throwing rocks to break windows, how will the window makers make a living?"
  - jiggy2011 14y ago
    In this case the window makers are probably web startups. If college kids weren't buying all these iphones what would be the value of geolocated picture dating services or whatever?
    - npsimons 14y ago
      It's interesting to hear what people consider window breaking and window making. Even in the canonical example of lawyers (who only "split the pie"), some provide a social good by defending innocent people against what some people consider a corrupt body of laws. I recently finished reading John Brunner's "Shockwave Rider" and found the taxation proposal near the end intriguing, if a bit alien. Tax rates are adjusted based on scoring of profession on three axes: training/talent, drawbacks (like unpredictable hours and dirty working conditions), and social indispensability. On all three axes, advertisers would score a zero, thereby qualifying for a 90% tax rate. I wonder where people would score people who work in a lot of these startups? I suppose it would depend heavily on what the startup was doing.
oberheitz 14y ago
"Life is hard, and it’s most certainly unfair… perhaps more so for our generation than any previous." Uhm, have you ever heard of World War II? I'm pretty sure the MacBook-toting hipsters you describe have a slightly easier life than those people had to serve in Vietnam or World War II.
- cbarnsdale 14y ago
  I considered pointing this out, and the great depression too. I can't say (and didn't say) that our generation is definitely harder off (I wasn't born during the previously stated time periods), however... from everything I've seen, youth today are in for a really, really shitty time. Perhaps saying "worse than its been in a long, long time" would have been more balanced.
  - msandford 14y ago
    At least if you died during WWII you were done. Now you can volunteer to rack up $200k+ in debt that will take you 10-20 (or more) years to pay off. It's not slavery in that it never ends but many students end up being very nearly indentured servants for a long time. Which is worse, death or debt "slavery?"
    - msandford 14y ago
      What's the criteria for downvoting? I don't get it.
      - dbecker 14y ago
        I hadn't downvoted you (yet), but you seem to be suggesting an equivalence between: i) Dying while fighting in trench warfare ii) Paying back money loaned to you for your education (presumably, while living in a comparably safe and climate controlled apartment) It's fine to say things people disagree with, but this is just non-sense. If I'd been a soldier soldier deployed in battle, or if I'd lost a family member in battle, I would find your comment one of the more offensive things I've ever seen on HN.
ef4 14y ago
> Life is hard, and it’s most certainly unfair… perhaps more so for our generation that any previous. Absolutely absurd. You really think you have it worse than somebody born into slavery? Or worse than a medieval serf? A large fraction of humans alive right now would look on your lifestyle as extremely privileged. This kind of statement comes across as pitifully ignorant whining. You actually hurt the cause of fixing real injustices when you fly off into hyperbole like this.
- cbarnsdale 14y ago
  You realize the article focuses on debt in regards to students and young people, right? Yeah, there's a bit of hyperbole, but I think my reference to "toughest... generation... evar..." makes sense in the context of "young people have it pretty shitty right now". Clearly you disagree, so fair enough. :)
  - Millennium 14y ago
    At the same time, this type of hyperbole makes it way too easy to dismiss arguments like these as whiny and lacking perspective. It's rhetorically unsound, and it doesn't do its side much in the way of favors.
    - dkarl 14y ago
      whiny and lacking perspective Like everything else young people find persuasive? (That was whiny and hyperbolic, too, because young people like irony.)
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - dbecker 14y ago
    We are one of the few generations that can expect to live past 50. According to Historian David McCullough, the functional literacy rate in 1900 was 11%. Sure, the article focus on students. But, by historical standards, you are extremely lucky TO BE ABLE to be a student into your early 20s. By historical standards, we are very privileged. This "toughest generation ever" bit is both naive and sad.
pm90 14y ago
The article hardly offers any new insight. Its just a rant on how the author perceives most young people are spending their money on 'useless crap' and exhorts them not to do so. Move on people.
jpsierens 14y ago
I wanted to input that I as a student am basically the opposite of what this article is talking about. I'm from West-Europe so maybe that's a huge factor. I spend less than €100 a month. I live with my parents, and currently doing a Masters in the best uni of my country, which costs around €550 for a year. I take the train to class everyday which is about 1 hour, but a train subscription costs me €80 for 3 months. A car is a luxury here and in my opinion, useless if you live in a city. I don't have any debt whatsoever and have never seen why I should go into debt. I almost never spend on anything not necessary. heck sometimes I wonder WHY I don't buy more things. My computer is 5+ years old and still in good shape, so are most of my clothes, although I do buy new stuff every year. If I do buy a gadget like my smartphone, I save for it first, I don't even have a credit card. I have never bought things and paid them after. Interest rates are the devil. Own your assets, not the other way around. Stop spending so much.
- jzwinck 14y ago
  Western europeans don't all have it this good. For example in London the train fare for an hour journey each way might be more like 700 pounds per quarter (roughly 15 times your own). There are some student discounts but they don't nearly make up that difference.

27 points by cbarnsdale 14y ago

Funny coming from unfinishedman.com, which is the blog people go to when they look at The Sharper Image and think "but what do you have that's REALLY frivolous?" [1] http://www.unfinishedman.com/aviator-wing-desk-inspired-by-ww2-fighter-planes/ http://www.unfinishedman.com/aviator-wing-desk-inspired-by-w... [2] http://www.unfinishedman.com/electric-hot-tub-boat-for-ultimate-relaxation/ http://www.unfinishedman.com/electric-hot-tub-boat-for-ultim... [3] http://www.unfinishedman.com/mercedes-benz-c63-amg-edition-507-coupe/ http://www.unfinishedman.com/mercedes-benz-c63-amg-edition-5...

cbarnsdale 14y ago
This is absolutely fair to point out. In many ways we try and act as "cool finders", and we do post a lot of hilariously expensive gear and gadgets, however... I think it's reasonable that people can still appreciate the tech without plunging themselves into debt trying to acquire it. These (admittedly) frivolous things could be an incentive, or something for people to look forward to for working smartly, if that's what makes them happy.
gnu8 14y ago
Plenty of irony on that site. I liked the ad for a $300 discount card disguised as another article. Promises to let you live like a "founder" by buying high priced crap from Bonobo at a discount. Very well targeted for the ycombinator crowd. http://www.unfinishedman.com/founderscard-live-like-a-prince-pay-like-a-pauper/ http://www.unfinishedman.com/founderscard-live-like-a-prince...
RyanZAG 14y ago
I don't think any student's credit card is going to be able to take a limited edition C63 AMG though, so probably not the same target audience.

potatolicious 14y ago

Seems like advice for a straw man. Author bases the whole diatribe on people he doesn't know around his college town. He presumes that everyone around him carrying gadgetry and nice clothes must be destroying themselves financially to do so, and can barely afford to eat. While no doubt these people actually do exist, IMO author is really reaching here. This reads like "I'm starter than all these idiots".

RyanZAG 14y ago
While you're correct about not generalizing, the number of students who are in debt is enormous[1]. Everyone wants to be amazingly educated with all the latest awesome gadgets, and unfortunately, it really is causing a lot of problems for society. The author really is doing a good job for himself if he is saving up some money and getting out of debt. We'll see how it goes... [1] http://www.asa.org/policy/resources/stats/default.aspx http://www.asa.org/policy/resources/stats/default.aspx
- jiggy2011 14y ago
  I wonder if taking out a student loan puts people in a mindset where they are more willing to take on debt? If you're already borrowing some thousands of $ for an education on the basis that you will "make it back when I graduate" what's a few more hundred $ for an iphone?
  - lysol 14y ago
    That was my mindset when, after college, I got my first credit cards. What's another thousand bucks on top of 30k?

jiggy2011 14y ago

But if people stop buying crap won't the crap making and marketing companies stop hiring so many of these college grads and instead of buying iphones they can't afford they now have to buy food they can't afford?

rapind 14y ago
You gotta love that argument eh? It's kind of like borrowing money from a bank so that you can hire yourself to do useless work until you collapse under the increasingly large interest payments. You have to right? Because if you don't borrow money to pay yourself to do useless stuff, well then you can't afford to eat... At least this way you're buying some time to figure out a way to get someone else to borrow money and pay you.
npsimons 14y ago
"But if people stop throwing rocks to break windows, how will the window makers make a living?"
- jiggy2011 14y ago
  In this case the window makers are probably web startups. If college kids weren't buying all these iphones what would be the value of geolocated picture dating services or whatever?
  - npsimons 14y ago
    It's interesting to hear what people consider window breaking and window making. Even in the canonical example of lawyers (who only "split the pie"), some provide a social good by defending innocent people against what some people consider a corrupt body of laws. I recently finished reading John Brunner's "Shockwave Rider" and found the taxation proposal near the end intriguing, if a bit alien. Tax rates are adjusted based on scoring of profession on three axes: training/talent, drawbacks (like unpredictable hours and dirty working conditions), and social indispensability. On all three axes, advertisers would score a zero, thereby qualifying for a 90% tax rate. I wonder where people would score people who work in a lot of these startups? I suppose it would depend heavily on what the startup was doing.

oberheitz 14y ago

"Life is hard, and it’s most certainly unfair… perhaps more so for our generation than any previous." Uhm, have you ever heard of World War II? I'm pretty sure the MacBook-toting hipsters you describe have a slightly easier life than those people had to serve in Vietnam or World War II.

cbarnsdale 14y ago
I considered pointing this out, and the great depression too. I can't say (and didn't say) that our generation is definitely harder off (I wasn't born during the previously stated time periods), however... from everything I've seen, youth today are in for a really, really shitty time. Perhaps saying "worse than its been in a long, long time" would have been more balanced.
- msandford 14y ago
  At least if you died during WWII you were done. Now you can volunteer to rack up $200k+ in debt that will take you 10-20 (or more) years to pay off. It's not slavery in that it never ends but many students end up being very nearly indentured servants for a long time. Which is worse, death or debt "slavery?"
  - msandford 14y ago
    What's the criteria for downvoting? I don't get it.
    - dbecker 14y ago
      I hadn't downvoted you (yet), but you seem to be suggesting an equivalence between: i) Dying while fighting in trench warfare ii) Paying back money loaned to you for your education (presumably, while living in a comparably safe and climate controlled apartment) It's fine to say things people disagree with, but this is just non-sense. If I'd been a soldier soldier deployed in battle, or if I'd lost a family member in battle, I would find your comment one of the more offensive things I've ever seen on HN.

ef4 14y ago

> Life is hard, and it’s most certainly unfair… perhaps more so for our generation that any previous. Absolutely absurd. You really think you have it worse than somebody born into slavery? Or worse than a medieval serf? A large fraction of humans alive right now would look on your lifestyle as extremely privileged. This kind of statement comes across as pitifully ignorant whining. You actually hurt the cause of fixing real injustices when you fly off into hyperbole like this.

cbarnsdale 14y ago
You realize the article focuses on debt in regards to students and young people, right? Yeah, there's a bit of hyperbole, but I think my reference to "toughest... generation... evar..." makes sense in the context of "young people have it pretty shitty right now". Clearly you disagree, so fair enough. :)
- Millennium 14y ago
  At the same time, this type of hyperbole makes it way too easy to dismiss arguments like these as whiny and lacking perspective. It's rhetorically unsound, and it doesn't do its side much in the way of favors.
  - dkarl 14y ago
    whiny and lacking perspective Like everything else young people find persuasive? (That was whiny and hyperbolic, too, because young people like irony.)
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- dbecker 14y ago
  We are one of the few generations that can expect to live past 50. According to Historian David McCullough, the functional literacy rate in 1900 was 11%. Sure, the article focus on students. But, by historical standards, you are extremely lucky TO BE ABLE to be a student into your early 20s. By historical standards, we are very privileged. This "toughest generation ever" bit is both naive and sad.

pm90 14y ago

The article hardly offers any new insight. Its just a rant on how the author perceives most young people are spending their money on 'useless crap' and exhorts them not to do so. Move on people.

jpsierens 14y ago

I wanted to input that I as a student am basically the opposite of what this article is talking about. I'm from West-Europe so maybe that's a huge factor. I spend less than €100 a month. I live with my parents, and currently doing a Masters in the best uni of my country, which costs around €550 for a year. I take the train to class everyday which is about 1 hour, but a train subscription costs me €80 for 3 months. A car is a luxury here and in my opinion, useless if you live in a city. I don't have any debt whatsoever and have never seen why I should go into debt. I almost never spend on anything not necessary. heck sometimes I wonder WHY I don't buy more things. My computer is 5+ years old and still in good shape, so are most of my clothes, although I do buy new stuff every year. If I do buy a gadget like my smartphone, I save for it first, I don't even have a credit card. I have never bought things and paid them after. Interest rates are the devil. Own your assets, not the other way around. Stop spending so much.

jzwinck 14y ago
Western europeans don't all have it this good. For example in London the train fare for an hour journey each way might be more like 700 pounds per quarter (roughly 15 times your own). There are some student discounts but they don't nearly make up that difference.