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> I could teach myself more in an afternoon than I would learn in a 10-week class. Yeah, no. This is the problem with so many of these anti-college diatribes:

by jmduke 14y ago

> I could teach myself more in an afternoon than I would learn in a 10-week class. Yeah, no. This is the problem with so many of these anti-college diatribes: legitimate criticisms such as increasingly abysmal professor-to-administrative ratios are drowned out in complete hyperbole. Or, taken another way: treat this article as an anecdote rather than a prescription.

richeyrw 14y ago
I wouldn't say this is complete hyperbole, but it might need the additional clarification of "I could teach myself more useful stuff in one afternoon..." Surely you've had an experience where something you picked up on a single afternoon had more long term value than an entire course?
- jmduke 14y ago
  I'm finishing up my final semester -- double major in Marketing and CS -- and the one class that I can say was worth less than a free afternoon was Computer Skills for Business. A one-credit seminar that taught the virtues of Excel macros and what not. The distinction in my mind is the definition of useful. Are we talking useful in careers or useful in life? I took six credits worth of British literature that probably won't be making my code any better, but the influence it had on the way I view the world and make decisions can't be replicated by an afternoon of hacking and Googling.
arethuza 14y ago
Out of interest, are all classes in US universities 10 weeks?
- derekerdmann 14y ago
  No, this is a feature of RIT and a few other schools. Even RIT is switching to 15-week semesters this fall.
  - evincarofautumn 14y ago
    The history of this is controversial. Student Government was charged with polling the student body and making an official recommendation to President Destler on that basis. The students voted to keep 10-week quarters, but SG recommended against the popular vote. It wasn’t just their fault, of course, but this kind of thing is part of the reason I left RIT. Nothing seemed to get done, at least not right.
    - jff 14y ago
      Student Government sold us out. We should have never gotten rid of Al Simone.
    - derekerdmann 14y ago
      Believe me, as a current student, I know how it happened. This really isn't the place for this discussion.
    - steve-howard 14y ago
      Now I'm kind of glad for the hilarious and useless student government at my school. All they can do is burn my money on events I don't care for...
- jmduke 14y ago
  From my understanding (which is indeed limited), yes, give or take two-three weeks -- with the exception of summer or winter classes, which meet more frequently but for a lesser overall time period. Still, the intensity of that course can vary, depending on the number of 'credit hours' it is worth: for example, a one credit class might meet for once a week, whereas a three credit class will meet thrice.
  - arethuza 14y ago
    The Scottish University I attended in the 1980s had years made up of 3 terms of roughly 10 weeks - 9 of teaching and one of exams. A class would typically run for the whole year - so for our first year maths course there were about 6 lectures and 2 tutorials and one exam for that class at the end of the year - the class exams during the year not actually counting for anything. We probably had about ~30 hours of timetabled lectures and tutorials a week - which actually got less as you went through the 4 year course but the overall workload incread a lot - although you were always left to decide how much you wanted to work (in my final year I did a lot of 14 hour days). Overall I thought it was great, I learned a huge amount, pushed myself really hard (mentally and physically) and had a hoot of a time socially. I don't regret it for a moment - and not just because it didn't cost me or my parents a penny! [NB My tax payments have more than repaid the investment made in me.]
- stevencorona 14y ago
  No, I went to a quarter based school which is not the norm.
- ryanhuff 14y ago
  Some US universities operate on a quarter calendar (4 terms per year), while others use a semester calendar. Semester terms are roughly 5 months long. I am not familiar with any other calendar terms used in the US.
- bandwevil 14y ago
  The school I'm at does 10 week quarters, but I think the typical university uses semesters these days, which would obviously be longer.
- LockeWatts 14y ago
  My classes are 15 weeks, but I've been told we have abnormally long semesters.
  - pc86 14y ago
    I don't know who told you that but they're wrong. Semesters by definition are about 15 weeks long. Some schools (like RIT) operate on shorter quarter schedules of ~9 weeks, but this is definitely not the norm.
- AdamTReineke 14y ago
  Iowa State University, where I attend, has 16 week semesters counting finals week but not spring/fall breaks. Summer semesters are shorter.
- jusuchin 14y ago
  UW-Stevens Point, where I graduated last year, has 16-week semesters.
WalterBright 14y ago
> I could teach myself more in an afternoon than I would learn in a 10-week class. That was true for me in high school, but not in college. At Caltech, it took me about an average of 3 hours to learn the material covered in an hour of lecture. A joke at the time was "one week into the semester, and I'm already 3 weeks behind!" A friend down the hall could learn a Caltech course in a few hours by flipping through the textbook. I was nowhere near as smart as him.
- xijuan 14y ago
  Same experience. In fact, I think most of my college friends have the same experiences. It is hard to find someone who is always on top of his/her work. I kind of get the author's idea. I can probably skim through the course materials more quickly on my own.. But I wouldn't be able to understand and remember the materials to the same extent if I have not done the homework and the exams.
- gruseom 14y ago
  A friend down the hall could learn a Caltech course in a few hours by flipping through the textbook. I was nowhere near as smart as him. Now I'm curious. Do you know what he ended up doing?
  - WalterBright 14y ago
    Yes. He's actually fairly well known, but I'd rather not betray his privacy. He's also one of the nicest and unassuming fellows I've known. He's like what people say Woz is like (I've never met Woz).
    - gruseom 14y ago
      Fair enough. It makes me happy that there are people like that.
    - adpirz 14y ago
      Wolfram or Searfoss. I'm guessing Wolfram. Based on a 2 minute Google.
randomdata 14y ago
I actually tend to agree with that statement to some extent. Not because I can take in an entire class worth of material in an afternoon, but because experience with school showed my learning style did not lend itself to the classroom, so I would end up not learning much in those ten weeks. I'd have to put in those afternoons (and evenings) applying my own techniques in order to stay up with everyone else who learned naturally in-class. I feel people who have graduated from college, and have obviously excelled in that environment, fail to realize what it is actually like for other people. Sadly, promoting college as the prescription is even more common than this side of the coin.

by jmduke 14y ago

richeyrw 14y ago

I wouldn't say this is complete hyperbole, but it might need the additional clarification of "I could teach myself more useful stuff in one afternoon..." Surely you've had an experience where something you picked up on a single afternoon had more long term value than an entire course?

jmduke 14y ago
I'm finishing up my final semester -- double major in Marketing and CS -- and the one class that I can say was worth less than a free afternoon was Computer Skills for Business. A one-credit seminar that taught the virtues of Excel macros and what not. The distinction in my mind is the definition of useful. Are we talking useful in careers or useful in life? I took six credits worth of British literature that probably won't be making my code any better, but the influence it had on the way I view the world and make decisions can't be replicated by an afternoon of hacking and Googling.

arethuza 14y ago

Out of interest, are all classes in US universities 10 weeks?

derekerdmann 14y ago
No, this is a feature of RIT and a few other schools. Even RIT is switching to 15-week semesters this fall.
- evincarofautumn 14y ago
  The history of this is controversial. Student Government was charged with polling the student body and making an official recommendation to President Destler on that basis. The students voted to keep 10-week quarters, but SG recommended against the popular vote. It wasn’t just their fault, of course, but this kind of thing is part of the reason I left RIT. Nothing seemed to get done, at least not right.
  - jff 14y ago
    Student Government sold us out. We should have never gotten rid of Al Simone.
  - derekerdmann 14y ago
    Believe me, as a current student, I know how it happened. This really isn't the place for this discussion.
  - steve-howard 14y ago
    Now I'm kind of glad for the hilarious and useless student government at my school. All they can do is burn my money on events I don't care for...
jmduke 14y ago
From my understanding (which is indeed limited), yes, give or take two-three weeks -- with the exception of summer or winter classes, which meet more frequently but for a lesser overall time period. Still, the intensity of that course can vary, depending on the number of 'credit hours' it is worth: for example, a one credit class might meet for once a week, whereas a three credit class will meet thrice.
- arethuza 14y ago
  The Scottish University I attended in the 1980s had years made up of 3 terms of roughly 10 weeks - 9 of teaching and one of exams. A class would typically run for the whole year - so for our first year maths course there were about 6 lectures and 2 tutorials and one exam for that class at the end of the year - the class exams during the year not actually counting for anything. We probably had about ~30 hours of timetabled lectures and tutorials a week - which actually got less as you went through the 4 year course but the overall workload incread a lot - although you were always left to decide how much you wanted to work (in my final year I did a lot of 14 hour days). Overall I thought it was great, I learned a huge amount, pushed myself really hard (mentally and physically) and had a hoot of a time socially. I don't regret it for a moment - and not just because it didn't cost me or my parents a penny! [NB My tax payments have more than repaid the investment made in me.]
stevencorona 14y ago
No, I went to a quarter based school which is not the norm.
ryanhuff 14y ago
Some US universities operate on a quarter calendar (4 terms per year), while others use a semester calendar. Semester terms are roughly 5 months long. I am not familiar with any other calendar terms used in the US.
bandwevil 14y ago
The school I'm at does 10 week quarters, but I think the typical university uses semesters these days, which would obviously be longer.
LockeWatts 14y ago
My classes are 15 weeks, but I've been told we have abnormally long semesters.
- pc86 14y ago
  I don't know who told you that but they're wrong. Semesters by definition are about 15 weeks long. Some schools (like RIT) operate on shorter quarter schedules of ~9 weeks, but this is definitely not the norm.
AdamTReineke 14y ago
Iowa State University, where I attend, has 16 week semesters counting finals week but not spring/fall breaks. Summer semesters are shorter.
jusuchin 14y ago
UW-Stevens Point, where I graduated last year, has 16-week semesters.

WalterBright 14y ago

> I could teach myself more in an afternoon than I would learn in a 10-week class. That was true for me in high school, but not in college. At Caltech, it took me about an average of 3 hours to learn the material covered in an hour of lecture. A joke at the time was "one week into the semester, and I'm already 3 weeks behind!" A friend down the hall could learn a Caltech course in a few hours by flipping through the textbook. I was nowhere near as smart as him.

xijuan 14y ago
Same experience. In fact, I think most of my college friends have the same experiences. It is hard to find someone who is always on top of his/her work. I kind of get the author's idea. I can probably skim through the course materials more quickly on my own.. But I wouldn't be able to understand and remember the materials to the same extent if I have not done the homework and the exams.
gruseom 14y ago
A friend down the hall could learn a Caltech course in a few hours by flipping through the textbook. I was nowhere near as smart as him. Now I'm curious. Do you know what he ended up doing?
- WalterBright 14y ago
  Yes. He's actually fairly well known, but I'd rather not betray his privacy. He's also one of the nicest and unassuming fellows I've known. He's like what people say Woz is like (I've never met Woz).
  - gruseom 14y ago
    Fair enough. It makes me happy that there are people like that.
  - adpirz 14y ago
    Wolfram or Searfoss. I'm guessing Wolfram. Based on a 2 minute Google.

randomdata 14y ago

I actually tend to agree with that statement to some extent. Not because I can take in an entire class worth of material in an afternoon, but because experience with school showed my learning style did not lend itself to the classroom, so I would end up not learning much in those ten weeks. I'd have to put in those afternoons (and evenings) applying my own techniques in order to stay up with everyone else who learned naturally in-class. I feel people who have graduated from college, and have obviously excelled in that environment, fail to realize what it is actually like for other people. Sadly, promoting college as the prescription is even more common than this side of the coin.