5 ms·

Yes, really bad trend. In addition to the usability issues the article mentions for sighted users, using placeholder without labels leaves screen reader users w

by steveax 14y ago

Yes, really bad trend. In addition to the usability issues the article mentions for sighted users, using placeholder without labels leaves screen reader users without any clue what the input is for.

saravk 14y ago
Good point about the screen reader. I've never considered it before. Thanks. Personally i dont like using labels and instead use placeholders with tooltips in my forms. But now i might have to reconsider that approach.
- jrabone 14y ago
  It's all fun and games until the National Federation of the Blind sues you...
  - pc86 14y ago
    Does the ADA apply to websites hosted within the US?
    - oftenwrong 14y ago
      Some quick Wikipedia research suggests to me that it depends on the exact circumstances, but in general it seems that any prominent company is vulnerable to lawsuits over website accessibility. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Federation_of_the_Blind_v._Target_Corporation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Federation_of_the_Blin... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Access_Now_v._Southwest_Airlines http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Access_Now_v._Southwest_Airline... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouellette_v._Viacom_International_Inc.#ADA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouellette_v._Viacom_Internation... http://www.dralegal.org/impact/cases/smith-et-al-v-hotelscom http://www.dralegal.org/impact/cases/smith-et-al-v-hotelscom http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/EO-Policy-USDOJ http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/EO-Policy-USDOJ
    - protomyth 14y ago
      The courts seem to think so http://www.dba-oracle.com/oracle_news/news_web_sites_ada_compliant.htm http://www.dba-oracle.com/oracle_news/news_web_sites_ada_com... http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202424114568&Settlement_Over_Targets_Web_Site_Marks_a_Win_for_ADA_Plaintiffs&slreturn=20130104135043 http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202424114568&Sett... http://www.webstandards.org/2006/02/14/nfb-vs-target-in-perspective/ http://www.webstandards.org/2006/02/14/nfb-vs-target-in-pers...
randomdata 14y ago
Aside from the other problems, placeholder is a standard attribute. If it is problematic for a screen reader to read that attribute, wouldn't that be a problem with the screen reader, not the HTML page?
- mjhoy 14y ago
  Except that placeholder != label, semantically. The spec says: The placeholder attribute should not be used as an alternative to a label. For a longer hint or other advisory text, the title attribute is more appropriate. http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/common-input-element-attributes.html#the-placeholder-attribute http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/...
im3w1l 14y ago
What about this solution: http://stackoverflow.com/a/1755802 http://stackoverflow.com/a/1755802 Have labels, but hide them with css.

by steveax 14y ago

Yes, really bad trend. In addition to the usability issues the article mentions for sighted users, using placeholder without labels leaves screen reader users without any clue what the input is for.

saravk 14y ago

Good point about the screen reader. I've never considered it before. Thanks. Personally i dont like using labels and instead use placeholders with tooltips in my forms. But now i might have to reconsider that approach.

jrabone 14y ago
It's all fun and games until the National Federation of the Blind sues you...
- pc86 14y ago
  Does the ADA apply to websites hosted within the US?
  - oftenwrong 14y ago
    Some quick Wikipedia research suggests to me that it depends on the exact circumstances, but in general it seems that any prominent company is vulnerable to lawsuits over website accessibility. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Federation_of_the_Blind_v._Target_Corporation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Federation_of_the_Blin... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Access_Now_v._Southwest_Airlines http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Access_Now_v._Southwest_Airline... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouellette_v._Viacom_International_Inc.#ADA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouellette_v._Viacom_Internation... http://www.dralegal.org/impact/cases/smith-et-al-v-hotelscom http://www.dralegal.org/impact/cases/smith-et-al-v-hotelscom http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/EO-Policy-USDOJ http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/EO-Policy-USDOJ
  - protomyth 14y ago
    The courts seem to think so http://www.dba-oracle.com/oracle_news/news_web_sites_ada_compliant.htm http://www.dba-oracle.com/oracle_news/news_web_sites_ada_com... http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202424114568&Settlement_Over_Targets_Web_Site_Marks_a_Win_for_ADA_Plaintiffs&slreturn=20130104135043 http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202424114568&Sett... http://www.webstandards.org/2006/02/14/nfb-vs-target-in-perspective/ http://www.webstandards.org/2006/02/14/nfb-vs-target-in-pers...

randomdata 14y ago

Aside from the other problems, placeholder is a standard attribute. If it is problematic for a screen reader to read that attribute, wouldn't that be a problem with the screen reader, not the HTML page?

mjhoy 14y ago
Except that placeholder != label, semantically. The spec says: The placeholder attribute should not be used as an alternative to a label. For a longer hint or other advisory text, the title attribute is more appropriate. http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/common-input-element-attributes.html#the-placeholder-attribute http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/...

im3w1l 14y ago

What about this solution: http://stackoverflow.com/a/1755802 http://stackoverflow.com/a/1755802 Have labels, but hide them with css.