4 ms·

The Distress of The Privileged

17 points by AndrewDucker 14y ago

norswap 14y ago
An intelligent and sensible analysis of some tough situations that crop up every day. We need more article like this.
delinka 14y ago
I know so many people that simply refuse to see an alternative point of view. The only recourse I've personally ever had in a discussion with these people is to simply remind them that other people have their lives to live the way they see fit and then ask why is it anyone's business how they live it?
yummyfajitas 14y ago
Cathy is suffering because people are saying bad things about him and refusing to buy his sandwiches. Meanwhile, 29 states (including Self’s home state of Louisiana) let employers fire gays for being gay. I'm confused. In 50 states, people have the freedom not to buy what Cathy is selling because they dislike him. In 29 states, people have the freedom not to buy what Self is selling because they dislike him. Who is oppressed here?
kstenerud 14y ago
One thing the article misses is that a religion is so much more than mere privilege. In the Judaic religions, Yahweh/Allah/God/Jehovah does not lie. Every word he utters is by definition true, and this means that his holy scriptures must also be true. So, when something contradicts the word of a god that never lies, how can it be seen as anything but an affront to that god? The Judaic scriptures are very clear about their god's views on homosexuality and marriage, so unless you manage to change those scriptures (fat chance), any pressure your bring to bear on the adherents of that religion will cause a backlash and counter-revolution. In the end, the only thing that will work is to marginalize the more radical groups to the point that they're no longer a powerful political entity (most promisingly via population attrition from decent educations). They'll still complain, but at least they'll be impotent. "Privileged distress" is nothing compared to the full force of an organized religion with an uncompromising god.
- RyanMcGreal 14y ago
  And yet I regularly see Christians eating shrimp and wearing polycotton blends. Go figure. For some reason, even fundamentalist Christians are able to compartmentalize some parts of the Bible (for example, they don't stone adulteresses in Mississippi) while insisting loudly and continuously on the continued enforcement of other selected parts. This compartmentalization can also change over time, and thank goodness: as we close the boxes we put around the Bible's advice on law and morality, our society becomes progressively more humane and less barbaric and unjust. Until quite recently, for example, slavery and racial segregation were openly justified on Biblical grounds (go check it out: the Bible is extremely bullish on slavery, even in the New Testament); yet today, not even the most ardent American fundamentalist conservative would dare speak openly in support of overturning the Thirteenth Amendment and reintroducing slavery. Notwithstanding the counterswell of sporadic backslides into morally repugnant Biblical morality - like "Stand Your Ground" laws that fundamentalist Christians justify on Biblical arguments - the trend across industrialized liberal democracies has been away from Stone Age morality and toward a realization of Enlightenment values. Even in America, the country is split between the more liberal, progressive northern and coastal states and the retrograde South. It remains an open question whether the two opposing strains can somehow converge on the international norms of liberty, rationality and fairness. If not, one of two outcomes seems likely: either the US will fracture into two jurisdictions, or the anti-modern South will manage to drag the country into a new cultural dark age.
  - inafield 14y ago
    If you're going to bring up slavery, you must also acknowledge that part of the push to end slavery came from Christians who denounced slavery. This started well before the Civil War and all of the economic implications of stopping the Confederates from having an economy based on slavery.
    - RyanMcGreal 14y ago
      Yes, that's my point: Christians who compartmentalize their adherence to the Bible are able to make progress in ethics and justice.
cantastoria 14y ago
Ah the ongoing Tumblr-fication of Hacker News. Off topic no?
- AndrewDucker 14y ago
  On topic: "anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity" (according to the guidelines). Also in the guidelines: "Please don't submit comments complaining that a submission is inappropriate for the site."

17 points by AndrewDucker 14y ago

An intelligent and sensible analysis of some tough situations that crop up every day. We need more article like this.

I know so many people that simply refuse to see an alternative point of view. The only recourse I've personally ever had in a discussion with these people is to simply remind them that other people have their lives to live the way they see fit and then ask why is it anyone's business how they live it?

yummyfajitas 14y ago

Cathy is suffering because people are saying bad things about him and refusing to buy his sandwiches. Meanwhile, 29 states (including Self’s home state of Louisiana) let employers fire gays for being gay. I'm confused. In 50 states, people have the freedom not to buy what Cathy is selling because they dislike him. In 29 states, people have the freedom not to buy what Self is selling because they dislike him. Who is oppressed here?

kstenerud 14y ago

One thing the article misses is that a religion is so much more than mere privilege. In the Judaic religions, Yahweh/Allah/God/Jehovah does not lie. Every word he utters is by definition true, and this means that his holy scriptures must also be true. So, when something contradicts the word of a god that never lies, how can it be seen as anything but an affront to that god? The Judaic scriptures are very clear about their god's views on homosexuality and marriage, so unless you manage to change those scriptures (fat chance), any pressure your bring to bear on the adherents of that religion will cause a backlash and counter-revolution. In the end, the only thing that will work is to marginalize the more radical groups to the point that they're no longer a powerful political entity (most promisingly via population attrition from decent educations). They'll still complain, but at least they'll be impotent. "Privileged distress" is nothing compared to the full force of an organized religion with an uncompromising god.

RyanMcGreal 14y ago
And yet I regularly see Christians eating shrimp and wearing polycotton blends. Go figure. For some reason, even fundamentalist Christians are able to compartmentalize some parts of the Bible (for example, they don't stone adulteresses in Mississippi) while insisting loudly and continuously on the continued enforcement of other selected parts. This compartmentalization can also change over time, and thank goodness: as we close the boxes we put around the Bible's advice on law and morality, our society becomes progressively more humane and less barbaric and unjust. Until quite recently, for example, slavery and racial segregation were openly justified on Biblical grounds (go check it out: the Bible is extremely bullish on slavery, even in the New Testament); yet today, not even the most ardent American fundamentalist conservative would dare speak openly in support of overturning the Thirteenth Amendment and reintroducing slavery. Notwithstanding the counterswell of sporadic backslides into morally repugnant Biblical morality - like "Stand Your Ground" laws that fundamentalist Christians justify on Biblical arguments - the trend across industrialized liberal democracies has been away from Stone Age morality and toward a realization of Enlightenment values. Even in America, the country is split between the more liberal, progressive northern and coastal states and the retrograde South. It remains an open question whether the two opposing strains can somehow converge on the international norms of liberty, rationality and fairness. If not, one of two outcomes seems likely: either the US will fracture into two jurisdictions, or the anti-modern South will manage to drag the country into a new cultural dark age.
- inafield 14y ago
  If you're going to bring up slavery, you must also acknowledge that part of the push to end slavery came from Christians who denounced slavery. This started well before the Civil War and all of the economic implications of stopping the Confederates from having an economy based on slavery.
  - RyanMcGreal 14y ago
    Yes, that's my point: Christians who compartmentalize their adherence to the Bible are able to make progress in ethics and justice.

cantastoria 14y ago

Ah the ongoing Tumblr-fication of Hacker News. Off topic no?

AndrewDucker 14y ago
On topic: "anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity" (according to the guidelines). Also in the guidelines: "Please don't submit comments complaining that a submission is inappropriate for the site."