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Its not surprising that 60 years after the green revolution ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Revolution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Revolution ) that

by rjurney 18y ago

Its not surprising that 60 years after the green revolution ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Revolution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Revolution ) that we would have washed trace minerals from the soil of our most productive farmland, which produces most of our vegetables, resulting in them having lower mineral content. Its also not surprising that nitrogen fed fruits and vegetables bred for size and weight would be larger and so contain diluted minerals. But if we intend to continue to increase our agricultural output and continue to feed the earth's population then there's no going back, and you can't feed everyone on earth with organic methods. Its hard enough using every trick in the book. Borlaug ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Borlaug http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Borlaug ) is an amazing guy and anyone who enjoyed this article will enjoy reading about the bio-hacker that fed a billion people and ended mass starvation in India and China by breeding kick-ass wheat and rice that raised agricultural output by seven times since the 1940s! The solution for Americans: grow your own vegetables! Use plenty of compost, use organic heirloom seeds suitable for your area and spray weekly with dilute dish soap and you'll have minerals a plenty in your veggies and no pesticides. And they'll taste better than anything you've ever had! It doesn't take much land to grow a significant amount of food.

rudyfink 18y ago
> It doesn't take much land to grow a significant amount of food. That made me think of this quote: "When Eleanor Roosevelt did something similar in 1943, she helped start a Victory Garden movement that ended up making a substantial contribution to feeding the nation in wartime. (Less well known is the fact that Roosevelt planted this garden over the objections of the U.S.D.A., which feared home gardening would hurt the American food industry.) By the end of the war, more than 20 million home gardens were supplying 40 percent of the produce consumed in America. " "The Food Issue", NY Times ( http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/12/magazine/12policy-t.html http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/12/magazine/12policy-t.html )
- rjurney 18y ago
  Which reminds me of the Atlanta Community Food Bank 'Plant a Row Campaign' to feed the hungry - http://www.acfb.org/projects/community_garden/plant_a_row/ http://www.acfb.org/projects/community_garden/plant_a_row/
colins_pride 18y ago
The issue here is that typical vegetables in your average supermarket have lower nutritional value than they did a generation ago, even though almost everything else in this society is getting better. A related issue is that processed foods are essentially a combination of corn, soybeans & sugar. Bottom line: people are eating worse food, but they are choosing to do so, not being forced. Growing your own vegetables is labor intensive. Although it can be emotionally rewarding, specialization is more rational economically. Better to just go down to the Trader Joes / Whole Foods / Local Organic Farmers Market and part with a bit of coin to pick up some of the good stuff there.
- old-gregg 18y ago
  * people are eating worse food, but they are choosing to do so, not being forced. * Really? Try finding a Coke with real sugar, and try getting a week worth of food without any corn syrup in them. My understanding is that the corn industry is basically forcing their products down our throats by lobbying the hell out of Washington.
  - jules 18y ago
    Which products contain corn syrup? I didn't know that it existed until now, but I can't think of anything I eat that could contain corn syrup.
    - mark_h 18y ago
      http://www.kingcorn.net/ http://www.kingcorn.net/ (I haven't actually seen this yet, but the thread reminded me of the trailer) Here's a direct link to the trailer, since the above link is a bit slow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiCRwMMh9k8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiCRwMMh9k8
    - Semiapies 18y ago
      Well, there are two types of corn syrup - plain old "corn syrup" ala Karo, and high fructose corn syrup, which is a very common sweetener in processed foods. (HFCS is also, for some reason, a bit of a nutritional boogeyman for a lot of people. There's no actual evidence that consuming X calories of it is any worse for people than consuming X calories of sugar or honey, but it's the new "dioxin" in some circles.)
old-gregg 18y ago
Great comment! I like your attitude and thanks for the links. BTW we have tried your suggestion (growing our own) and after several attempts we're giving up: self-grown veggies have almost the same lack of taste as the manufactured ones from a supermarket: I suspect that's because the seeds themselves have been genetically ruined. Same with farmers markets: their vegetables are not only tasteless, but they're also ugly and more expensive. We've asked my parents in Russia to send me their seeds of tomatoes and cucumbers but they won't grow here due to climate/soil differences. So we're stuck with "plastic" ones from the store. Many 1st gen. immigrants I know, particularly from southern Europe, share my disdain for American agricultural products. Strawberries are my favorite example: they're 2-3 times bigger than normal, have different texture and are completely devoid of taste. They're basically enlarged 3D prints of strawberries made of eatable synthetic substance. And don't get me started on various deserts with "strawberry" flavors: if the periodic elements table had a smell, that would be it - a US-made strawberry milk shake.
- rjurney 18y ago
  You're not stuck! You just need heirloom seeds, and tons of compost and you can raise great tasting vegetables. Personally, I get my seeds from http://www.harrisseeds.com http://www.harrisseeds.com (no affiliation) but if you google, you can find many heirloom seed providers - just make sure to talk to them before you buy to make sure they will grow ok in your climate zone - heirlooms are less tolerant of climate ranges than the modern breeds. As to the strawberries - you're not stuck there either! While personally I can't imagine anyone not preferring gigantor strawberries, to each his own. There is a different breed of species in Europe, you can get them here, they will grow here. I don't remember the exact species/breed, but an heirloom seed supplier will know. You can see the different species on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragaria http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragaria
- chiffonade 18y ago
  > I suspect that's because the seeds themselves have been genetically ruined. Same with farmers markets: their vegetables are not only tasteless, but they're also ugly and more expensive. WTF? Here in California (both nor and so) all our home grown veggies and farmers markets and CSA's produce excellent veggies and fruits. The stuff you buy at mainstream supermarket is all plastic though.
bmj 18y ago
You are correct--soil damage has much to do with this. Wendell Berry (among others) has written much about this. Large scale farming tends not to view the soil and its cycles as important to the process of growing food.
- donw 18y ago
  I'd like to see some data regarding this, actually. I've got a good friend that owns a tree farm in Oregon, and if you listen to the environmentalists, they make it sound like Richard is some sort of maniac clear-cutting idiot who is destroying a precious natural resource. The opposite becomes apparent if you actually talk to him about the farm, and look at the money they put into both planning and tree-farming technology. Him, and his family, view their forest as a long-term asset, not to mention an effectively infinite stream of future revenue, and a great place to go hiking. They go to incredible lengths to make sure that their forest is going to be around, and viably growing, a few hundred years from now. It seems odd that any large company wouldn't look at their company-owned farms in the same fashion. Of course, corporate owners can be greedy and stupid as well. So I'd like to know more about how large-scale farming causes soil damage.
jacoblyles 18y ago
Couldn't I just eat 30% more vegetables? Or vitamin fortified wheat products?
HeyLaughingBoy 18y ago
It doesn't take much land to grow a significant amount of food This is very true!!! Although I live on ten acres, I only have a relatively small garden (about 20x40') and it is still capable of producing much more than my family can consume unless I preserve a lot of it. A single pumpkin seed for example, can result in almost 100 lbs of pumpkins even if you don't take care of them. They just grow like weeds! Tomatoes, potatoes, squash: plant a few seeds and you're up to your neck in veggies in a few months. And about the strawberry comment: everyone who loves strawberries should do themselves a favor and grow some, even if it's just in a small pot on the windowsill. Home grown strawberries are vastly superior to the ones in the supermarket in every aspect except shipping ability.
- rjurney 18y ago
  I have 18 strawberry plants ready to go into a new patch, nice and big, so they'll propagate outward into twice as many... :D I just moved to a house on 7 acres, so I tilled, manured and fenced off 25' * 25' for vegetables, but... found myself wanting more room for corn, so I tilled 25' * 50' more, plus the strawberry patch. If we spent as much time as we do on our lawns on vegetables, every house would easily be self sustaining for fruits and veggies!
tokipin 18y ago
Borlaug was mentioned on Penn & Teller's show: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIvNopv9Pa8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIvNopv9Pa8

by rjurney 18y ago

rudyfink 18y ago

> It doesn't take much land to grow a significant amount of food. That made me think of this quote: "When Eleanor Roosevelt did something similar in 1943, she helped start a Victory Garden movement that ended up making a substantial contribution to feeding the nation in wartime. (Less well known is the fact that Roosevelt planted this garden over the objections of the U.S.D.A., which feared home gardening would hurt the American food industry.) By the end of the war, more than 20 million home gardens were supplying 40 percent of the produce consumed in America. " "The Food Issue", NY Times ( http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/12/magazine/12policy-t.html http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/12/magazine/12policy-t.html )

rjurney 18y ago
Which reminds me of the Atlanta Community Food Bank 'Plant a Row Campaign' to feed the hungry - http://www.acfb.org/projects/community_garden/plant_a_row/ http://www.acfb.org/projects/community_garden/plant_a_row/

colins_pride 18y ago

The issue here is that typical vegetables in your average supermarket have lower nutritional value than they did a generation ago, even though almost everything else in this society is getting better. A related issue is that processed foods are essentially a combination of corn, soybeans & sugar. Bottom line: people are eating worse food, but they are choosing to do so, not being forced. Growing your own vegetables is labor intensive. Although it can be emotionally rewarding, specialization is more rational economically. Better to just go down to the Trader Joes / Whole Foods / Local Organic Farmers Market and part with a bit of coin to pick up some of the good stuff there.

old-gregg 18y ago
* people are eating worse food, but they are choosing to do so, not being forced. * Really? Try finding a Coke with real sugar, and try getting a week worth of food without any corn syrup in them. My understanding is that the corn industry is basically forcing their products down our throats by lobbying the hell out of Washington.
- jules 18y ago
  Which products contain corn syrup? I didn't know that it existed until now, but I can't think of anything I eat that could contain corn syrup.
  - mark_h 18y ago
    http://www.kingcorn.net/ http://www.kingcorn.net/ (I haven't actually seen this yet, but the thread reminded me of the trailer) Here's a direct link to the trailer, since the above link is a bit slow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiCRwMMh9k8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiCRwMMh9k8
  - Semiapies 18y ago
    Well, there are two types of corn syrup - plain old "corn syrup" ala Karo, and high fructose corn syrup, which is a very common sweetener in processed foods. (HFCS is also, for some reason, a bit of a nutritional boogeyman for a lot of people. There's no actual evidence that consuming X calories of it is any worse for people than consuming X calories of sugar or honey, but it's the new "dioxin" in some circles.)

old-gregg 18y ago

Great comment! I like your attitude and thanks for the links. BTW we have tried your suggestion (growing our own) and after several attempts we're giving up: self-grown veggies have almost the same lack of taste as the manufactured ones from a supermarket: I suspect that's because the seeds themselves have been genetically ruined. Same with farmers markets: their vegetables are not only tasteless, but they're also ugly and more expensive. We've asked my parents in Russia to send me their seeds of tomatoes and cucumbers but they won't grow here due to climate/soil differences. So we're stuck with "plastic" ones from the store. Many 1st gen. immigrants I know, particularly from southern Europe, share my disdain for American agricultural products. Strawberries are my favorite example: they're 2-3 times bigger than normal, have different texture and are completely devoid of taste. They're basically enlarged 3D prints of strawberries made of eatable synthetic substance. And don't get me started on various deserts with "strawberry" flavors: if the periodic elements table had a smell, that would be it - a US-made strawberry milk shake.

rjurney 18y ago
You're not stuck! You just need heirloom seeds, and tons of compost and you can raise great tasting vegetables. Personally, I get my seeds from http://www.harrisseeds.com http://www.harrisseeds.com (no affiliation) but if you google, you can find many heirloom seed providers - just make sure to talk to them before you buy to make sure they will grow ok in your climate zone - heirlooms are less tolerant of climate ranges than the modern breeds. As to the strawberries - you're not stuck there either! While personally I can't imagine anyone not preferring gigantor strawberries, to each his own. There is a different breed of species in Europe, you can get them here, they will grow here. I don't remember the exact species/breed, but an heirloom seed supplier will know. You can see the different species on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragaria http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragaria
chiffonade 18y ago
> I suspect that's because the seeds themselves have been genetically ruined. Same with farmers markets: their vegetables are not only tasteless, but they're also ugly and more expensive. WTF? Here in California (both nor and so) all our home grown veggies and farmers markets and CSA's produce excellent veggies and fruits. The stuff you buy at mainstream supermarket is all plastic though.

bmj 18y ago

You are correct--soil damage has much to do with this. Wendell Berry (among others) has written much about this. Large scale farming tends not to view the soil and its cycles as important to the process of growing food.

donw 18y ago
I'd like to see some data regarding this, actually. I've got a good friend that owns a tree farm in Oregon, and if you listen to the environmentalists, they make it sound like Richard is some sort of maniac clear-cutting idiot who is destroying a precious natural resource. The opposite becomes apparent if you actually talk to him about the farm, and look at the money they put into both planning and tree-farming technology. Him, and his family, view their forest as a long-term asset, not to mention an effectively infinite stream of future revenue, and a great place to go hiking. They go to incredible lengths to make sure that their forest is going to be around, and viably growing, a few hundred years from now. It seems odd that any large company wouldn't look at their company-owned farms in the same fashion. Of course, corporate owners can be greedy and stupid as well. So I'd like to know more about how large-scale farming causes soil damage.

jacoblyles 18y ago

Couldn't I just eat 30% more vegetables? Or vitamin fortified wheat products?

HeyLaughingBoy 18y ago

It doesn't take much land to grow a significant amount of food This is very true!!! Although I live on ten acres, I only have a relatively small garden (about 20x40') and it is still capable of producing much more than my family can consume unless I preserve a lot of it. A single pumpkin seed for example, can result in almost 100 lbs of pumpkins even if you don't take care of them. They just grow like weeds! Tomatoes, potatoes, squash: plant a few seeds and you're up to your neck in veggies in a few months. And about the strawberry comment: everyone who loves strawberries should do themselves a favor and grow some, even if it's just in a small pot on the windowsill. Home grown strawberries are vastly superior to the ones in the supermarket in every aspect except shipping ability.

rjurney 18y ago
I have 18 strawberry plants ready to go into a new patch, nice and big, so they'll propagate outward into twice as many... :D I just moved to a house on 7 acres, so I tilled, manured and fenced off 25' * 25' for vegetables, but... found myself wanting more room for corn, so I tilled 25' * 50' more, plus the strawberry patch. If we spent as much time as we do on our lawns on vegetables, every house would easily be self sustaining for fruits and veggies!

tokipin 18y ago

Borlaug was mentioned on Penn & Teller's show: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIvNopv9Pa8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIvNopv9Pa8