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Nina Schmidt, Danish professor in economics, calculated recently that every Danish baby girl born now, is expected to cost the government almost 300,000 dollars

by flexie 14y ago

Nina Schmidt, Danish professor in economics, calculated recently that every Danish baby girl born now, is expected to cost the government almost 300,000 dollars over her lifetime, and that every baby boy born, will contribute with merely 110,000 dollars. https://www.mm.dk/kvinder-er-en-underskudsforretning https://www.mm.dk/kvinder-er-en-underskudsforretning (in Danish). The Danish government is running huge deficits on the budget and it is hard to see how that will change in the coming years. Had it not been for the oil and gas in the North Sea, which peaked in 2004 and 2000 respectively, we would have been in a much worse situation. The Danish version of the Nordic model is not sustainable. Not sure how it is in the other Nordic countries.

kmfrk 14y ago
Norway aren't going to run out of their oil trust fund money any time soon. :)
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
mixmax 14y ago
According to the CIA world factbook the projected budget deficit for Denmark in 2012 is 4%. In a recession that's not huge, it's very small. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/da.html https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/...
- mseebach 14y ago
  It's going to get a lot worse over the next decade when the baby boomers begin retiring. All those 2020 plans you're constantly hearing about? Not a random date.
fijal 14y ago
How did you end up with 110k USD? GDP per person is ~56k (assuming 0% growth over lifetime), which means with danish taxes there is quite a bit over 100k USD contributed to the government on average. Your numbers sound incredibly fishy (and no, I don't read danish)
- flexie 14y ago
  Nothing fishy about her numbers. These are net values. Both men and women contribute in their (best) working years, but as children and young adults, and again at old age, they cost more.
  - fijal 14y ago
    If they really cost only 300k USD/lifetime (does not sound that big), they definitely pay over 110k USD/lifetime. 56k is GDP, but that's divided by all (elderly and children too), so a dane is earning like 90k USD/year, out of which he pays 20-30k in taxes (there is more than just income tax). Average dane definitely works over 10 years. Hence the figures are fishy.
bjourne 14y ago
Life is so much more than being a profitable servant. The Danes have more than enough food to feed themselves and enough houses to shelter everyone. Ensuring those basic needs, food and shelter requires at most 10% of the workforce. The remainder 90% can be allocated to schools, hospitals, retirement homes, tv production, professional athletes, accountants, hairdressers, etc. There is no shortage of either resources or labor. The only problem is how it is allocated.
- flexie 14y ago
  That statement is true for all first world countries.
- mseebach 14y ago
  > Life is so much more than being a profitable servant. It is. So a lot of people rightfully feel a bit screwed over going to work, having 56% marginal tax rate siphoned directly off the paycheck and then another 25% VAT at the till (no "essentials" VAT rate, all is 25%). That is on top of some of the most expensive groceries anywhere in Europe. The system is setup to benefit those who spread their careers evenly over as many years as possible - indeed, it's very well tuned to make that life very comfortable. But save up for a few years, take a year off, be an entrepreneur? You'll get screwed on all fronts. The the extend the "servant" idiom is useful, if you work in Denmark, you're as much a servant to the system as you'll ever be.
- ahomescu1 14y ago
  Why don't we let individuals choose how they allocate their own production? That way, you're only your own "profitable servant".
Evbn 14y ago
Why the girl-boy split? Oh, not counting married couples as combined units. Weird.
- flexie 14y ago
  Nina Smith was showing gender differences. That's why she split the data up on genders. One of her conclusions was that the traditional family roles, in which the husband supports the wife, has been taken over by the welfare society so that the woman is now supported by the government. There are many reasons for this difference. First of all, men still tend to seek more managerial positions and jobs in the private sector, making more money. Women have more part time jobs and jobs in the public sector. As Denmark taxes income on a progressive scale women end up paying less tax this way. Another reason is that women live longer and thus have more expensive retirements.
seivan 14y ago
This is why I believe that it's unsustainable, same thing with Sweden. Same thing I wrote here. But it's just a feeling I have. That and the fact that the pension age for my dad increased, as well as the value decreased. It's going to get worse. I don't expect the current state of economy to be sustainable in Sweden for the years to come. It's going to go downhill. I believe in conservative economies.
kaonashi 14y ago
> The Danish version of the Nordic model is not sustainable. This piece discusses how government deficits are sustainable. http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2012/12/functional-finance-and-the-debt-ratio-part-i.html http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2012/12/functional-financ...

by flexie 14y ago

kmfrk 14y ago

Norway aren't going to run out of their oil trust fund money any time soon. :)

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

mixmax 14y ago

According to the CIA world factbook the projected budget deficit for Denmark in 2012 is 4%. In a recession that's not huge, it's very small. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/da.html https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/...

mseebach 14y ago
It's going to get a lot worse over the next decade when the baby boomers begin retiring. All those 2020 plans you're constantly hearing about? Not a random date.

fijal 14y ago

How did you end up with 110k USD? GDP per person is ~56k (assuming 0% growth over lifetime), which means with danish taxes there is quite a bit over 100k USD contributed to the government on average. Your numbers sound incredibly fishy (and no, I don't read danish)

flexie 14y ago
Nothing fishy about her numbers. These are net values. Both men and women contribute in their (best) working years, but as children and young adults, and again at old age, they cost more.
- fijal 14y ago
  If they really cost only 300k USD/lifetime (does not sound that big), they definitely pay over 110k USD/lifetime. 56k is GDP, but that's divided by all (elderly and children too), so a dane is earning like 90k USD/year, out of which he pays 20-30k in taxes (there is more than just income tax). Average dane definitely works over 10 years. Hence the figures are fishy.

bjourne 14y ago

Life is so much more than being a profitable servant. The Danes have more than enough food to feed themselves and enough houses to shelter everyone. Ensuring those basic needs, food and shelter requires at most 10% of the workforce. The remainder 90% can be allocated to schools, hospitals, retirement homes, tv production, professional athletes, accountants, hairdressers, etc. There is no shortage of either resources or labor. The only problem is how it is allocated.

flexie 14y ago
That statement is true for all first world countries.
mseebach 14y ago
> Life is so much more than being a profitable servant. It is. So a lot of people rightfully feel a bit screwed over going to work, having 56% marginal tax rate siphoned directly off the paycheck and then another 25% VAT at the till (no "essentials" VAT rate, all is 25%). That is on top of some of the most expensive groceries anywhere in Europe. The system is setup to benefit those who spread their careers evenly over as many years as possible - indeed, it's very well tuned to make that life very comfortable. But save up for a few years, take a year off, be an entrepreneur? You'll get screwed on all fronts. The the extend the "servant" idiom is useful, if you work in Denmark, you're as much a servant to the system as you'll ever be.
ahomescu1 14y ago
Why don't we let individuals choose how they allocate their own production? That way, you're only your own "profitable servant".

Evbn 14y ago

Why the girl-boy split? Oh, not counting married couples as combined units. Weird.

flexie 14y ago
Nina Smith was showing gender differences. That's why she split the data up on genders. One of her conclusions was that the traditional family roles, in which the husband supports the wife, has been taken over by the welfare society so that the woman is now supported by the government. There are many reasons for this difference. First of all, men still tend to seek more managerial positions and jobs in the private sector, making more money. Women have more part time jobs and jobs in the public sector. As Denmark taxes income on a progressive scale women end up paying less tax this way. Another reason is that women live longer and thus have more expensive retirements.

seivan 14y ago

This is why I believe that it's unsustainable, same thing with Sweden. Same thing I wrote here. But it's just a feeling I have. That and the fact that the pension age for my dad increased, as well as the value decreased. It's going to get worse. I don't expect the current state of economy to be sustainable in Sweden for the years to come. It's going to go downhill. I believe in conservative economies.

kaonashi 14y ago

> The Danish version of the Nordic model is not sustainable. This piece discusses how government deficits are sustainable. http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2012/12/functional-finance-and-the-debt-ratio-part-i.html http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2012/12/functional-financ...