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Could it be that Rails (and by extension Ruby) is the first really popular post-web-revolution language used for development since PHP, and, unburdened by lots

by hilko 14y ago

Could it be that Rails (and by extension Ruby) is the first really popular post-web-revolution language used for development since PHP, and, unburdened by lots of bad practices having evolved alongside (not necessarily because of) PHP, re-introduces a whole bunch of good practices like unit testing? And could it be that as a result young, excited and still green developers, comparing themselves to the 'bad' previous web generation, get a bit cocky about it? These are not rhetorical questions; I'm actually asking this. I came from humble hack-together-crazy-bad-php-apps, went through getting used to more frameworky stuff with Drupal, and then ended up at Rails with a certain comfort and a definite increase in best-practice. My first introduction to unit testing was through Hartl's tutorials, perhaps because I have no formal programming background. I could see how some people after a similar process get cocky about how great they are because they write tests. I'm not defending cockiness or whatever characterizes the Ruby community. I'm just wondering.

btilly 14y ago
People who come to a better environment from a worse one often do get "true religion", and I am sure that happened to a lot of Ruby devs. You cite PHP. I would also cite Java devs whose first dynamic language was Ruby, and then went overboard. Either way, enthusiasm combined with lack of perspective leads to annoyance for people who have that perspective, who realize that you're still missing some basic lessons. (Monkeypatching anyone?)
- hilko 14y ago
  Ah, great observation. That really does explain it. It's not unlike the zeal of just-reborn Christians, or even just-'deconversed' nonbelievers.
chromatic 14y ago
That's the attitude which annoys me, as someone who first used Ruby in 2000 and had been doing web programming since 1998. Neither Ruby nor Rails invented a lot of things, nor did it perfect them. (Rails does deserve credit for promoting "convention over configuration" as a design concept, but plenty of us were doing similar things years earlier.)

by hilko 14y ago

btilly 14y ago

People who come to a better environment from a worse one often do get "true religion", and I am sure that happened to a lot of Ruby devs. You cite PHP. I would also cite Java devs whose first dynamic language was Ruby, and then went overboard. Either way, enthusiasm combined with lack of perspective leads to annoyance for people who have that perspective, who realize that you're still missing some basic lessons. (Monkeypatching anyone?)

hilko 14y ago
Ah, great observation. That really does explain it. It's not unlike the zeal of just-reborn Christians, or even just-'deconversed' nonbelievers.

chromatic 14y ago

That's the attitude which annoys me, as someone who first used Ruby in 2000 and had been doing web programming since 1998. Neither Ruby nor Rails invented a lot of things, nor did it perfect them. (Rails does deserve credit for promoting "convention over configuration" as a design concept, but plenty of us were doing similar things years earlier.)