5 ms·

Wine On Android Is Coming For Running Windows Apps

93 points by microwise 14y ago

ars 14y ago
Do you need ARM applications, or does it emulate X86 too?
- gahahaha 14y ago
  I don't know, but from the Wine ARM wiki: """Possible goals: run the assembler parts of x86 in qemu and call function in Wine compiled for ARM"""
- digisign 14y ago
  Wine is not an emulator. ;)
  - shmerl 14y ago
    This is misleading, since it means it's not a CPU emulator, however it's an emulator of Windows in a sense that it mimics the Windows environment and system libraries.
    - duaneb 14y ago
      I always just assumed it was a tongue-in-cheek joke à la GNU.
loeg 14y ago
The reason WINE works is that it essentially runs x86 programs as-is and provides the needed linkage (shared libraries) used by the Windows programs. (Windows syscalls are usually issued through an intermediary shared library, so WINE can trap them there.) Much of this work is re-implementing the various libraries; bugs in WINE can usually be attributed to missing functionality (incomplete or stubbed functions) or bugs in the WINE implementation. Running an x86 program directly on ARM is … impossible. So maybe WINE on ARM can serve to run WinRT applications… but none of the existing x86 Windows applications can run without x86 emulation, which would be absurdly slow on Android devices. Edit: Another commenter says that the project wiki suggests using qemu to run the x86 code on ARM, and then trap calls into native (ARM) WINE libraries. This approach seems unlikely to yield good performance. I am concerned that different C and C++ calling conventions means some additional work will have to be done to cleanup function arguments at every call, which is just more overhead on top of x86 emulation…
- mikecane 14y ago
  >>>So maybe WINE on ARM can serve to run WinRT applications That would be a trick: How do you buy RT apps when not on a Microsoft-approved device?
  - loeg 14y ago
    Good question. I am not actually familiar with the specifics of WinRT; I haven't touched Windows regularly since the early 2000s.
  - jevinskie 14y ago
    Maybe you first buy them on a MS-approved device and either copy the app from that device or are able to get a DL link that works on the other device.
    - mikecane 14y ago
      But that would make you buy what you want to avoid -- an MS-approved device.
      - jevinskie 14y ago
        Not everyone who wants to run RT apps on non-MS devices is trying to avoid MS in every aspect of their lives.
- lucian1900 14y ago
  But Wine on x86 Android would be useful.
  - loeg 14y ago
    Sure, but then it's just normal WINE. Not WINE on ARM, which is suggested by the article =).
- demallien 14y ago
  Actually, the performance might not be as bad as you would at first think. A good chunk of the work done by a graphical application is actually done by the graphics system supplied by the "OS", and in this case, that code would be natively compiled. It's analogous (performance-wise) to writing gui apps in python - provided you're not trying to do any heavy lifting in the actual application code, it could work quite well. Apple's Rosetta technology for running PowerPC code on Intel Macs actually worked this way, and the performance for most apps was really quite acceptable. That said, Rosetta had the advantage of moving from relatively slow CPUs to the fastest in the world. In the case of ARM / Android, you would be trying to run Windows apps on a slower CPU, so the results wouldn't be as good as Rosetta...
btown 14y ago
How difficult would it be to get Wine running on a jailbroken iOS device?
- digisign 14y ago
  It would be a waste of time; the devices are arm and not x86.
  - duaneb 14y ago
    Windows runs on ARM too. Not sure any of the apps are worth emulating though.
NathanKP 14y ago
If Android gains traction on x86-based tablets and other mobile devices, CodeWeavers has a lot of commercial opportunities for pushing the running of Windows software on Android. I honestly don't see how there would be that much of a market. Any native Android implementation of a particular program will be much nicer to use than a Wine emulated program. Really the only use I have ever found for Wine and other emulation programs is for running Windows games on other platforms and usually the performance is too poor or unreliable except in the case of very old games.
- GigabyteCoin 14y ago
  SkiFree would actually be pretty fun on an Android.
  - brokenparser 14y ago
    Here you go: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.kudzu.plant.skifree https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.kudzu.plan...
  - yareally 14y ago
    DOSbox has been out for Android for quite some time. Takes a little configuring, but it works. I've seen people running windows 3.1 and win 95 on Android as well. http://androiddosbox.appspot.com/ http://androiddosbox.appspot.com/ http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1325643 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1325643
- polshaw 14y ago
  >running Windows games on other platforms and usually the performance is too poor or unreliable except in the case of very old games IME this is out-of-date.. I run PES 2013 with wine. (I haven't tried many other games, but quite a few are compatible). I have to run it on one setting lower, other than that its almost identical to running it on windows, wine is impressive these days. I agree it would be quite limited with ARM, although there are x86 phones.
  - 14y ago
pippy 14y ago
So we have windows apps on android, and android apps running on windows 8?
habosa 14y ago
I love ambitious projects like this, but I can't help but think this is a waste of some formidable developer talent. First, running Windows apps on Android will give Android even more of a battery life problem than it already has. Second, this will possibly increase the chance that some software shops will be even lazier in making native ports of popular applications and just tell people to use WINE. Third, if people want this kind of experience they should just buy a Surface Pro or some kind of Ubuntu touch device that can already run WINE. Again, I applaud anyone who will undertake a project of this difficulty but I just don't see the point.
- Raphael 14y ago
  You don't have to run Android on battery.
- yareally 14y ago
  I don't see the issue. It's not like people are going to be tossing up Wine apps in the market en massé.
joelbm24 14y ago
all this just to run internet explorer on a macbook
- UntitledNo4 14y ago
  http://www.modern.ie/virtualization-tools http://www.modern.ie/virtualization-tools
ikonst 14y ago
http://www.winulator.com/ http://www.winulator.com/ P.S. knowing this dude's previous work (coLinux), he's pretty good :)
damian2000 14y ago
Anyone know what the benefits/drawbacks are of running WINE on a MacBook/Linix versus running Windows in a VM such as VirtualBox?
- jiggy2011 14y ago
  With a VM you will be able to run more software more reliably but suffer a significant performance hit and require a Windows license for the VM and it will take a chunk of your RAM. WINE is more likely to be glitchy & unreliable with many programs, will require special configuration in some cases and may not work at al in others. However since it doesn't have to emulate a computer (it basically re-implements parts of the Windows API) the performance is usually on a par or only slightly worse than native windows. You don't need a Windows license to run WINE however.

93 points by microwise 14y ago

ars 14y ago

Do you need ARM applications, or does it emulate X86 too?

gahahaha 14y ago
I don't know, but from the Wine ARM wiki: """Possible goals: run the assembler parts of x86 in qemu and call function in Wine compiled for ARM"""
digisign 14y ago
Wine is not an emulator. ;)
- shmerl 14y ago
  This is misleading, since it means it's not a CPU emulator, however it's an emulator of Windows in a sense that it mimics the Windows environment and system libraries.
  - duaneb 14y ago
    I always just assumed it was a tongue-in-cheek joke à la GNU.

loeg 14y ago

The reason WINE works is that it essentially runs x86 programs as-is and provides the needed linkage (shared libraries) used by the Windows programs. (Windows syscalls are usually issued through an intermediary shared library, so WINE can trap them there.) Much of this work is re-implementing the various libraries; bugs in WINE can usually be attributed to missing functionality (incomplete or stubbed functions) or bugs in the WINE implementation. Running an x86 program directly on ARM is … impossible. So maybe WINE on ARM can serve to run WinRT applications… but none of the existing x86 Windows applications can run without x86 emulation, which would be absurdly slow on Android devices. Edit: Another commenter says that the project wiki suggests using qemu to run the x86 code on ARM, and then trap calls into native (ARM) WINE libraries. This approach seems unlikely to yield good performance. I am concerned that different C and C++ calling conventions means some additional work will have to be done to cleanup function arguments at every call, which is just more overhead on top of x86 emulation…

mikecane 14y ago
>>>So maybe WINE on ARM can serve to run WinRT applications That would be a trick: How do you buy RT apps when not on a Microsoft-approved device?
- loeg 14y ago
  Good question. I am not actually familiar with the specifics of WinRT; I haven't touched Windows regularly since the early 2000s.
- jevinskie 14y ago
  Maybe you first buy them on a MS-approved device and either copy the app from that device or are able to get a DL link that works on the other device.
  - mikecane 14y ago
    But that would make you buy what you want to avoid -- an MS-approved device.
    - jevinskie 14y ago
      Not everyone who wants to run RT apps on non-MS devices is trying to avoid MS in every aspect of their lives.
lucian1900 14y ago
But Wine on x86 Android would be useful.
- loeg 14y ago
  Sure, but then it's just normal WINE. Not WINE on ARM, which is suggested by the article =).
demallien 14y ago
Actually, the performance might not be as bad as you would at first think. A good chunk of the work done by a graphical application is actually done by the graphics system supplied by the "OS", and in this case, that code would be natively compiled. It's analogous (performance-wise) to writing gui apps in python - provided you're not trying to do any heavy lifting in the actual application code, it could work quite well. Apple's Rosetta technology for running PowerPC code on Intel Macs actually worked this way, and the performance for most apps was really quite acceptable. That said, Rosetta had the advantage of moving from relatively slow CPUs to the fastest in the world. In the case of ARM / Android, you would be trying to run Windows apps on a slower CPU, so the results wouldn't be as good as Rosetta...

btown 14y ago

How difficult would it be to get Wine running on a jailbroken iOS device?

digisign 14y ago
It would be a waste of time; the devices are arm and not x86.
- duaneb 14y ago
  Windows runs on ARM too. Not sure any of the apps are worth emulating though.

NathanKP 14y ago

If Android gains traction on x86-based tablets and other mobile devices, CodeWeavers has a lot of commercial opportunities for pushing the running of Windows software on Android. I honestly don't see how there would be that much of a market. Any native Android implementation of a particular program will be much nicer to use than a Wine emulated program. Really the only use I have ever found for Wine and other emulation programs is for running Windows games on other platforms and usually the performance is too poor or unreliable except in the case of very old games.

GigabyteCoin 14y ago
SkiFree would actually be pretty fun on an Android.
- brokenparser 14y ago
  Here you go: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.kudzu.plant.skifree https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.kudzu.plan...
- yareally 14y ago
  DOSbox has been out for Android for quite some time. Takes a little configuring, but it works. I've seen people running windows 3.1 and win 95 on Android as well. http://androiddosbox.appspot.com/ http://androiddosbox.appspot.com/ http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1325643 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1325643
polshaw 14y ago
>running Windows games on other platforms and usually the performance is too poor or unreliable except in the case of very old games IME this is out-of-date.. I run PES 2013 with wine. (I haven't tried many other games, but quite a few are compatible). I have to run it on one setting lower, other than that its almost identical to running it on windows, wine is impressive these days. I agree it would be quite limited with ARM, although there are x86 phones.
- 14y ago

pippy 14y ago

So we have windows apps on android, and android apps running on windows 8?

habosa 14y ago

I love ambitious projects like this, but I can't help but think this is a waste of some formidable developer talent. First, running Windows apps on Android will give Android even more of a battery life problem than it already has. Second, this will possibly increase the chance that some software shops will be even lazier in making native ports of popular applications and just tell people to use WINE. Third, if people want this kind of experience they should just buy a Surface Pro or some kind of Ubuntu touch device that can already run WINE. Again, I applaud anyone who will undertake a project of this difficulty but I just don't see the point.

Raphael 14y ago
You don't have to run Android on battery.
yareally 14y ago
I don't see the issue. It's not like people are going to be tossing up Wine apps in the market en massé.

joelbm24 14y ago

all this just to run internet explorer on a macbook

UntitledNo4 14y ago
http://www.modern.ie/virtualization-tools http://www.modern.ie/virtualization-tools

ikonst 14y ago

http://www.winulator.com/ http://www.winulator.com/ P.S. knowing this dude's previous work (coLinux), he's pretty good :)

damian2000 14y ago

Anyone know what the benefits/drawbacks are of running WINE on a MacBook/Linix versus running Windows in a VM such as VirtualBox?

jiggy2011 14y ago
With a VM you will be able to run more software more reliably but suffer a significant performance hit and require a Windows license for the VM and it will take a chunk of your RAM. WINE is more likely to be glitchy & unreliable with many programs, will require special configuration in some cases and may not work at al in others. However since it doesn't have to emulate a computer (it basically re-implements parts of the Windows API) the performance is usually on a par or only slightly worse than native windows. You don't need a Windows license to run WINE however.