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Thanks for the response with a bit of context from that perspective. However, I would think that "material to the issue" and "miscarriage of justice" would bot

Thanks for the response with a bit of context from that perspective. However, I would think that "material to the issue" and "miscarriage of justice" would both apply to the potential, or particularly actual, conviction of another person based on false testimony. Perjuring oneself while under deposition can lead to prosecution without any "miscarriage of justice" having taken place in the form of a concluded trial and judgment based upon said testimony. The courts might also consider context, where the fact of a member of law enforcement committing perjury might be considered particularly onerous, and worrisome in that it may reflect a repeated pattern across multiple cases and potentially across multiple law enforcement officers if it reflects de facto policy and/or improper training and supervision. Finally, effective law enforcement in this country is meant to depend upon and engender public trust -- and participation, amongst other things in the direct form of the jury. Failure to investigate and prosecute frankly criminal behavior on the part of law enforcement undermines this foundation. Witness areas such as those described in the OP, where law enforcement ends up in certain respects being "another gang". P.S. I might add that, with respect to the incentives that the OP article describes, it appears that the perjuring law officer may stand, directly or through their organization, to gain materially as a result of their false testimony. Not only are they bearing false witness, they are doing so for material benefit. Which speaks to the nature of the incentives and metrics described.

lutusp 14y ago
> Perjuring oneself while under deposition can lead to prosecution without any "miscarriage of justice" having taken place in the form of a concluded trial and judgment based upon said testimony. No, as far as I know and in most jurisdictions -- for it to be perjury, among the other conditions already listed, there must be a resulting miscarriage of justice. BTW IANAL. EDIT: the "miscarriage of justice" issue often affects a prosecutor's decision to pursue a case, and it affects the sentencing phase, but it's not actually part of the formal definition. I was wrong. > The courts might also consider context, where the fact of a member of law enforcement committing perjury might be considered particularly onerous ... Yes, but that only applies to sentencing, not the issue of guilt. Whether the facts support a conviction of perjury is separate from the issue of an appropriate punishment after a conviction.
- pasbesoin 14y ago
  I guess I shouldn't conflate the courts with the prosecutor's office (and law enforcement itself, for that matter). And IANAL -- NEC (Not Even Close) -- myself. BTW, I hope that acronyms suffice in such disclaimers. ;-) The P.S. that I added to my grandparent, I wrote before you followed up. So, it was not in response to your response. Beginning to feel too much like a lawyer, just writing these convolutions... I appreciate your level-headed, and researched, responses. Admittedly, I'm going more than a bit on emotion, here. Without being overly versed in the details of the law, I watch the contemporary results and trends in this country with a growing horror. Of course, that may reflect my own particular circumstances [1] as much or more than an objective (however defined) measure of actual circumstances. -- [1] Including e.g. aging, competing with production environments that don't have to meet my own's level of expenses including due to regulatory and safety expenses, respect for IP, etc.

lutusp 14y ago

> Perjuring oneself while under deposition can lead to prosecution without any "miscarriage of justice" having taken place in the form of a concluded trial and judgment based upon said testimony. No, as far as I know and in most jurisdictions -- for it to be perjury, among the other conditions already listed, there must be a resulting miscarriage of justice. BTW IANAL. EDIT: the "miscarriage of justice" issue often affects a prosecutor's decision to pursue a case, and it affects the sentencing phase, but it's not actually part of the formal definition. I was wrong. > The courts might also consider context, where the fact of a member of law enforcement committing perjury might be considered particularly onerous ... Yes, but that only applies to sentencing, not the issue of guilt. Whether the facts support a conviction of perjury is separate from the issue of an appropriate punishment after a conviction.

pasbesoin 14y ago
I guess I shouldn't conflate the courts with the prosecutor's office (and law enforcement itself, for that matter). And IANAL -- NEC (Not Even Close) -- myself. BTW, I hope that acronyms suffice in such disclaimers. ;-) The P.S. that I added to my grandparent, I wrote before you followed up. So, it was not in response to your response. Beginning to feel too much like a lawyer, just writing these convolutions... I appreciate your level-headed, and researched, responses. Admittedly, I'm going more than a bit on emotion, here. Without being overly versed in the details of the law, I watch the contemporary results and trends in this country with a growing horror. Of course, that may reflect my own particular circumstances [1] as much or more than an objective (however defined) measure of actual circumstances. -- [1] Including e.g. aging, competing with production environments that don't have to meet my own's level of expenses including due to regulatory and safety expenses, respect for IP, etc.