6 ms·

I honestly don't even know what to say when these things come up nowadays. It just seems like the bullshit won't end. I can't think of any options that even exi

by Permit 14y ago

I honestly don't even know what to say when these things come up nowadays. It just seems like the bullshit won't end. I can't think of any options that even exist to fix this broken patent system.

devmach 14y ago
I'm studying in Germany abroad and i have a u.s. green card. After reading so much crap about u.s. patent system, i'm really considering staying in Germany or immigrate to another country ( like Singapore ?? ) and start a business there. I know, one person doesn't make a difference furthermore i'm not a "very important super mega top ninja hipster talented programmer" and every county has it's own problems. The thing is, i really don't like the idea that, my company can go to bankruptcy because law doesn't protect me and i have to live with fear and try to stay out of some patent troll's radar.
- beering 14y ago
  Singapore is where Uniloc, this patent troll, is incorporated. Just an interesting bit of trivia.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
- emmelaich 14y ago
  I believe German trademark law has been (ab)used, too, so don't think you're completely safe.
  - devmach 14y ago
    I'm aware that i'm not completely safe but from my perspective it looks like, if the situation affecting the economy , Europeans will react and do something about it. Patent trolling is a problem in U.S. since a long time but nobody want's to fix it. Politicians seems doesn't care, big corporations simply pay fees and reflect them to their customers or like in this case, companies let patent trolls screw their suppliers / business partners. Entrepreneurs & companies spending billions[0] for nothing, current patent system ironically hinders innovation, which is clearly bad for the economy and the country, everybody complains but nothing changes. I'm really having a hard time understanding why is this happening [1] [0] : http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/06/study-patent-trolls-cost-companies-29-billion-last-year/259070/ http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/06/study-... [1] : Just to clarify, i'm not saying country a is better than country b. I'm just really trying to understand.
    - simonh 14y ago
      Concur. It's not just that the legal regimen in the USA is much worse that elsewhere (though there's a credible case that it is). It's that the way the legal and political systems are locked together in a death grip that makes meaningful reform seem very unlikely. The legal and political systems in Europe aren't ideal by any means, but for example we've been able to stave off the worst excesses of the software patent lobby fairly successfully. It's possible the SOPA protests and the furore over the treatment of Aaron Swartz will make a difference and the US can turn a corner on these issues after all. We can hope so. I've worked at two companies now where there were graphical methods of displaying data that previously existed on paper, but we could not implement them in software because they were patented in the USA. One was in celular radio network planning and something to do with interference calculation, the other was in displaying a 'ladder' of bids and offers in financial trading systems. You could use these methods to display data on printed paper, or in a PDF on a screen for example, but if you generate the results in software and you're breaking the law in the US. Insane. But it's not practical to have one version for inside the US and another for the rest of the world.
    - L4mppu 14y ago
      Politicians won't care because corporations own them.
- Kliment 14y ago
  German patent law is super-evil too. As far as I understand it, patents are presumed valid for the duration of a patent suit, so you get hit with an injunction even if you countersue.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
thesagan 14y ago
It's as if some sort of patent "tragedy" would need to happen, such as an extremely popular application used by multiple voting blocs be shut down, an application whose absence would set off a larger popular response. However, the owner of such an application would have to somehow be vulnerable, and I'm not sure what's out there that would match this criteria. Certainly not a Google or Microsoft, to state the obvious.
- DividesByZero 14y ago
  Someone like Google or Microsoft can just pay to settle. No such 'tragedy' is possible.
lucajona 14y ago
I understand your feeling of helplessness, but supporting the people that stand up and fight against these patent trolls seems like a good place to start. Signing the petition costs nothing, and there's a chance that it could have a real and lasting impact on the patent system. Donating to Austin Meyer's legal defence fund is much cheaper—both financially and emotionally—than having to defend against a patent troll yourself at some stage in the future.
- melling 14y ago
  I didn't see a link to donate. Wouldn't it be better for the FSF to create a generic fund that agressively went after these trolls? I'd give a couple hundred dollars a year.
  - hagios 14y ago
    I'd donate at least a couple hundred a year if the FSF/EFF did this exactly.
    - dickbasedregex 14y ago
      Ditto.
    - neurotech1 14y ago
      EFF is involved in this https://www.eff.org/patent-busting https://www.eff.org/patent-busting Feel free to donate :)
      - hagios 14y ago
        Nifty, thanks! Emailed to see if there's a way to earmark my donation for this cause (since it'd be separate from a general donation).
  - lutusp 14y ago
    > Wouldn't it be better for the FSF to create a generic fund that agressively went after these trolls? No, that only treats the symptoms. It would be much better to cure the disease -- the broken patent system.
EliRivers 14y ago
I don't know a damn thing about the law so I'm asking this in the hopes of education; I live in a country that doesn't recognise software patents. Presumably I can still sell software overseas, to places where software patents are recognised. What's stopping people such as Mr Meyer creating a company in my country that exists purely to create the effect that all sales of his software come from my country? Not trolling or snarking; I genuinely don't know what the situation would be in that kind of case. Company employee in a the US making the software just as before, but technically working for company in a country that doesn't recognise software patents, and that company is the company selling the software to people in the US.
- Vivtek 14y ago
  I'm interested in this question, too. As I understand it, the patent law in the country of sale governs each sale - but I'm open to the possibility that I don't actually understand it.

by Permit 14y ago

I honestly don't even know what to say when these things come up nowadays. It just seems like the bullshit won't end. I can't think of any options that even exist to fix this broken patent system.

devmach 14y ago

I'm studying in Germany abroad and i have a u.s. green card. After reading so much crap about u.s. patent system, i'm really considering staying in Germany or immigrate to another country ( like Singapore ?? ) and start a business there. I know, one person doesn't make a difference furthermore i'm not a "very important super mega top ninja hipster talented programmer" and every county has it's own problems. The thing is, i really don't like the idea that, my company can go to bankruptcy because law doesn't protect me and i have to live with fear and try to stay out of some patent troll's radar.

beering 14y ago
Singapore is where Uniloc, this patent troll, is incorporated. Just an interesting bit of trivia.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
emmelaich 14y ago
I believe German trademark law has been (ab)used, too, so don't think you're completely safe.
- devmach 14y ago
  I'm aware that i'm not completely safe but from my perspective it looks like, if the situation affecting the economy , Europeans will react and do something about it. Patent trolling is a problem in U.S. since a long time but nobody want's to fix it. Politicians seems doesn't care, big corporations simply pay fees and reflect them to their customers or like in this case, companies let patent trolls screw their suppliers / business partners. Entrepreneurs & companies spending billions[0] for nothing, current patent system ironically hinders innovation, which is clearly bad for the economy and the country, everybody complains but nothing changes. I'm really having a hard time understanding why is this happening [1] [0] : http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/06/study-patent-trolls-cost-companies-29-billion-last-year/259070/ http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/06/study-... [1] : Just to clarify, i'm not saying country a is better than country b. I'm just really trying to understand.
  - simonh 14y ago
    Concur. It's not just that the legal regimen in the USA is much worse that elsewhere (though there's a credible case that it is). It's that the way the legal and political systems are locked together in a death grip that makes meaningful reform seem very unlikely. The legal and political systems in Europe aren't ideal by any means, but for example we've been able to stave off the worst excesses of the software patent lobby fairly successfully. It's possible the SOPA protests and the furore over the treatment of Aaron Swartz will make a difference and the US can turn a corner on these issues after all. We can hope so. I've worked at two companies now where there were graphical methods of displaying data that previously existed on paper, but we could not implement them in software because they were patented in the USA. One was in celular radio network planning and something to do with interference calculation, the other was in displaying a 'ladder' of bids and offers in financial trading systems. You could use these methods to display data on printed paper, or in a PDF on a screen for example, but if you generate the results in software and you're breaking the law in the US. Insane. But it's not practical to have one version for inside the US and another for the rest of the world.
  - L4mppu 14y ago
    Politicians won't care because corporations own them.
Kliment 14y ago
German patent law is super-evil too. As far as I understand it, patents are presumed valid for the duration of a patent suit, so you get hit with an injunction even if you countersue.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

thesagan 14y ago

It's as if some sort of patent "tragedy" would need to happen, such as an extremely popular application used by multiple voting blocs be shut down, an application whose absence would set off a larger popular response. However, the owner of such an application would have to somehow be vulnerable, and I'm not sure what's out there that would match this criteria. Certainly not a Google or Microsoft, to state the obvious.

DividesByZero 14y ago
Someone like Google or Microsoft can just pay to settle. No such 'tragedy' is possible.

lucajona 14y ago

I understand your feeling of helplessness, but supporting the people that stand up and fight against these patent trolls seems like a good place to start. Signing the petition costs nothing, and there's a chance that it could have a real and lasting impact on the patent system. Donating to Austin Meyer's legal defence fund is much cheaper—both financially and emotionally—than having to defend against a patent troll yourself at some stage in the future.

melling 14y ago
I didn't see a link to donate. Wouldn't it be better for the FSF to create a generic fund that agressively went after these trolls? I'd give a couple hundred dollars a year.
- hagios 14y ago
  I'd donate at least a couple hundred a year if the FSF/EFF did this exactly.
  - dickbasedregex 14y ago
    Ditto.
  - neurotech1 14y ago
    EFF is involved in this https://www.eff.org/patent-busting https://www.eff.org/patent-busting Feel free to donate :)
    - hagios 14y ago
      Nifty, thanks! Emailed to see if there's a way to earmark my donation for this cause (since it'd be separate from a general donation).
- lutusp 14y ago
  > Wouldn't it be better for the FSF to create a generic fund that agressively went after these trolls? No, that only treats the symptoms. It would be much better to cure the disease -- the broken patent system.

EliRivers 14y ago

I don't know a damn thing about the law so I'm asking this in the hopes of education; I live in a country that doesn't recognise software patents. Presumably I can still sell software overseas, to places where software patents are recognised. What's stopping people such as Mr Meyer creating a company in my country that exists purely to create the effect that all sales of his software come from my country? Not trolling or snarking; I genuinely don't know what the situation would be in that kind of case. Company employee in a the US making the software just as before, but technically working for company in a country that doesn't recognise software patents, and that company is the company selling the software to people in the US.

Vivtek 14y ago
I'm interested in this question, too. As I understand it, the patent law in the country of sale governs each sale - but I'm open to the possibility that I don't actually understand it.