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> highest college costs, compare this to the EU and England where high quality colleges like Cambridge and Oxford are free. British universities are anything b

by rmk2 14y ago

> highest college costs, compare this to the EU and England where high quality colleges like Cambridge and Oxford are free. British universities are anything but free, unless you manage to get scholarships (which don't exist for undergrads, as far as i know) for everything. However, in that case, the same would apply for the US... edit: For an overview over the undergrad fees (p.a., for home students) as of last year, have a look at http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-12880840 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-12880840

SimonInman 14y ago
This is not really correct. Although the government has recently raised the maximum tuition fees that Universities may charge (from around £3000 to around £9000 per year), this has not affected the financial provisions available to first-degree (i.e. undergrad) home students. The government supplies student loans for both tuition fees and maintenance (i.e. living) costs, which (supposedly) only garner interest at the rate of inflation. In addition, there is extensive means-tested financial support available from both the government and from Universities. I went to Oxford a few years ago and received full financial support. My income (in addition to the ~£3K tuition fee loan the government paid the university directly) from loans/grants was in the region of £9000, with about £5k of that being non-repayable. Although this was the maximum possible, it was hardly uncommon for people to get it, or to get some proportion of it. There are also numerous smaller grants handed out by both the university and its constituent colleges on the basis of financial need and otherwise. (In response to the increase in tuition fees, Michael Moritz (Sequoia Capital chairman) donated £75m to Oxford, with the express goal of keeping tuition fees low for disadvantaged students: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-18785041 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-18785041)
- rmk2 14y ago
  The original claim was that UK universities are free, which they are not. Just because you don't pay for it immediately does not make something free. And even if you end up not paying back the full amount, you still end up paying something back. Additionally, relying on loan reduction schemes or scholarships does not mean education is free. The Scandinavian countries would have been a better example, because education is truly and actually free there, i.e. you do not pay anything (and as a citizen, you will probably get money -- which is not a loan and does not have to be paid back -- from the government as financial aid, further enabling students). On top of that scholarships for Masters degrees (depending on subject) are exceedingly rare (and not means-tested), with few loan options available (none of them government-funded, if I remember correctly).

by rmk2 14y ago

SimonInman 14y ago

This is not really correct. Although the government has recently raised the maximum tuition fees that Universities may charge (from around £3000 to around £9000 per year), this has not affected the financial provisions available to first-degree (i.e. undergrad) home students. The government supplies student loans for both tuition fees and maintenance (i.e. living) costs, which (supposedly) only garner interest at the rate of inflation. In addition, there is extensive means-tested financial support available from both the government and from Universities. I went to Oxford a few years ago and received full financial support. My income (in addition to the ~£3K tuition fee loan the government paid the university directly) from loans/grants was in the region of £9000, with about £5k of that being non-repayable. Although this was the maximum possible, it was hardly uncommon for people to get it, or to get some proportion of it. There are also numerous smaller grants handed out by both the university and its constituent colleges on the basis of financial need and otherwise. (In response to the increase in tuition fees, Michael Moritz (Sequoia Capital chairman) donated £75m to Oxford, with the express goal of keeping tuition fees low for disadvantaged students: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-18785041 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-18785041)

rmk2 14y ago
The original claim was that UK universities are free, which they are not. Just because you don't pay for it immediately does not make something free. And even if you end up not paying back the full amount, you still end up paying something back. Additionally, relying on loan reduction schemes or scholarships does not mean education is free. The Scandinavian countries would have been a better example, because education is truly and actually free there, i.e. you do not pay anything (and as a citizen, you will probably get money -- which is not a loan and does not have to be paid back -- from the government as financial aid, further enabling students). On top of that scholarships for Masters degrees (depending on subject) are exceedingly rare (and not means-tested), with few loan options available (none of them government-funded, if I remember correctly).