6 ms·

I'm don't have enough information to know whether I like the attempt to silence his kids. It would be easy to see kids that age getting out to control to the po

I'm don't have enough information to know whether I like the attempt to silence his kids. It would be easy to see kids that age getting out to control to the point that damage to the computer occurs and noise is almost always the first step towards that. But holy crap! Half of this place seems like they want to be raising robots, not individuals who all have their own needs and will need to be taught and treated differently. Worse, I have a strong feeling most of them haven't talked to a kid in years, much less ever raised one. And these people are not just giving advice, but being highly judgmental. Saying the father is wrong. I raise four kids with my wife. Two kids as a single dad would be twice as hard at least. Go walk a mile and see how your "build a robot" methodology works for your kid. (Sorry about the rant. I take fatherhood and other people judging it very seriously. I came from an abusive household, and that is the only kind of environment I would openly judge a father for. This is not abusive, even if it offends somebody's sense of logic.)

SoftwareMaven 14y ago
I forgot to mention, all parenting aspects aside, this is a really cool hack. I love seeing what can be accomplished with just scripts, pipes, and the occasional file.
Cushman 14y ago
Hear, hear. The way people second-guess everyday parenting decisions is annoying, but the way people here are reacting to this one is mind boggling. This is a clear and obvious win all around: Dad's happy, the kids are happy, and all because Linux saved the day. Let's ship it and go home, folks.
hackoder 14y ago
Thank you for that voice of reason. You make two very good points here and in your other post. 1) Kids are different. There is a whole spectrum of right and wrong decisions depending on what your kid is like. Would anyone suggest that the same methods would work with a kid who is stubborn and one who is easy going? 2) These decisions depend on a kid's age. A 2-5 year old is not logical or rational, and can do outrageous things just to see how you would react. Don't deceive them, let them be kids, yadda yadda are almost funny to read. Like you said, walk a mile in the parents' shoes. Anyway, getting back to the original post, I do see an issue with this approach (to parenting, not the technical solutions): I'd rather solve the bigger problem of the kids not listening to what the parent is saying rather than fixing this single instance. On the other hand, it is easy for kids to get rowdy without realizing it and this method seems to fix that particular issue well.
- neumann_alfred 14y ago
  Don't deceive them, let them be kids, yadda yadda are almost funny to read. Like you said, walk a mile in the parents' shoes. Or, have had the luxury of having great parents who never bothered playing such mind games with you. Of course, since such gifted parents are rare, it's easy to simply dismiss such a high standard. But once you go non-bullshit, it's just hard to go back.
  - incision 14y ago
    >Or, have had the luxury of having great parents who never bothered playing such mind games with you. Of course, since such gifted parents are rare, it's easy to simply dismiss such a high standard. But once you go non-bullshit, it's just hard to go back. It's interesting that you're responding from the perspective of a child to a statement from the perspective of a parent. Do you have children?
    - neumann_alfred 14y ago
      It's interesting that you're responding from the perspective of a child to a statement from the perspective of a parent. Yeah, it's almost as if it's a relationship between two humans, instead of a one-way input pipe. Do you have children? What makes you ask? That I respect kids more than quite a bunch of folks who are actually raising some? Or is that just an attempt to dismiss what I said without addressing it? That shit is getting real old.
      - CodeMage 14y ago
        What makes you ask? I don't know why @incision asked, so I can't speak for him or her. However, I know why I would ask you the same question: I would be curious whether you were simply speaking out of profound ignorance and entitlement or whether there was actually any credibility to back up your stance. That I respect kids more than quite a bunch of folks who are actually raising some? This has nothing to do with respect and a lot to do with hard-earned experience, which you don't have. And I say hard-earned because there's no decent parent out there that doesn't regret a whole lot of mistakes they made while they were bringing up their kids. Your attitude of moral superiority is not only undeserved, but it's also quite insulting. Or is that just an attempt to dismiss what I said without addressing it? That shit is getting real old. Is it? Funny, from where I stand, it looks like you were coming up with criticism and theories you never bothered to verify in any way, just because you feel entitled and I can tell you: that shit has been ancient before I was born. I suggest you read Steve Yegge's "Have you ever legalized marijuana?" [1] or, if you're short on time, a relevant XKCD [2]. [1]: http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2009/04/have-you-ever-legalized-marijuana.html http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2009/04/have-you-ever-legali... [2]: http://xkcd.com/793/ http://xkcd.com/793/
kmfrk 14y ago
That's just the weird cargo-cult "hacker mentality" intersecting with parenting. People would submit articles entitled "How I hacked my children", if it weren't because there was a nagging feeling in the back of their skull that something wasn't right about this attitude. Doesn't stop people from applying it to everything else, though.
ChuckMcM 14y ago
This. Got into a moderately long discussion with a co-worker about filtering out access to MySpace (it was a while ago :-) and chat access for my kids when they were younger. They were of the opinion that I was really damaging my kids by creating this barrier between them and the 'real world' and it wasn't like they weren't going to get there eventually. The conversation meandered into manners, swearing, all sorts of things. It was only then that I realized they didn't actually have kids, and said as much "So, you don't actually have kids do you?" and they sputtered a bit and admitted that no, they didn't. But they had a couple of nieces and nephews they knew pretty well and kids were kids. I just thanked them and ended the conversation. If you are not a parent, evaluating parenting strategies is not possible, just like evaluating sexual positions if you're a virgin just doesn't work out. You need to be 'experienced' as Jimmy Hendrix famously said, to flip the bit in your brain associated with that experience before you can effectively evaluate different choices. Sad but true.
- 001sky 14y ago
  If you are not a parent, evaluating parenting strategies is not possible As devil's advocate, i would argue this is not true. There are externalities to any strategy. And one can judge the impact of strategy X on people outside the immediate family. This is perhaps a caveat outside the scope of the context, but when evaluating things generally is worth pointing out.
  - abstractbill 14y ago
    I think it's not quite literally true, but if you wanted to evaluate parenting strategies and were not a parent, you would have to put a lot of effort into observing parents (as opposed to just thinking about it a lot).
    - neumann_alfred 14y ago
      Since it's all just anecdotal anyway, I also like to think back to teachers and other adults. As a general rule, those who treated me "as an equal" (not an actual equal, but without condescension or trickery that wasn't for the purpose of humour or pain/fright relief), I loved to learn from, did never mind to be corrected by. The rest? I found holes in their facade and had at them. Nature abhors a vacuum, and strong children abhor fake authority. Weak parents think disrespect is the problem, when often enough it's their own weakness. Children aren't "programmed" by nature to be a pain in the ass, far from it. They are "programmed" to learn, to be curious, and to love even. It actually takes quite a bit of fuckery to destroy that, but our society is good at it. And then those kids become parents and perpetuate it.
incision 14y ago
>...individuals who all have their own needs and will need to be taught and treated differently. So, so true. I find it's a common source of frustration and tool of rationalization to blindly apply what appears to have "worked" for one kid to all of the rest, expecting if not demanding the same result. Kids aren't uniform data ready for predictable processing. >Worse, I have a strong feeling most of them haven't talked to a kid in years, much less ever raised one. Child-rearing is such a magnet for expert advice given from a position of zero practical experience. There are all sorts of things in life that would be more applicable to speak authoritatively on with only theory to work from, but I rarely see the same kind of absolute assuredness anywhere else. I'm thinking folks tend to take their own childhood as years of "factual" evidence and experience in the matter.

SoftwareMaven 14y ago

I forgot to mention, all parenting aspects aside, this is a really cool hack. I love seeing what can be accomplished with just scripts, pipes, and the occasional file.

Cushman 14y ago

Hear, hear. The way people second-guess everyday parenting decisions is annoying, but the way people here are reacting to this one is mind boggling. This is a clear and obvious win all around: Dad's happy, the kids are happy, and all because Linux saved the day. Let's ship it and go home, folks.

hackoder 14y ago

Thank you for that voice of reason. You make two very good points here and in your other post. 1) Kids are different. There is a whole spectrum of right and wrong decisions depending on what your kid is like. Would anyone suggest that the same methods would work with a kid who is stubborn and one who is easy going? 2) These decisions depend on a kid's age. A 2-5 year old is not logical or rational, and can do outrageous things just to see how you would react. Don't deceive them, let them be kids, yadda yadda are almost funny to read. Like you said, walk a mile in the parents' shoes. Anyway, getting back to the original post, I do see an issue with this approach (to parenting, not the technical solutions): I'd rather solve the bigger problem of the kids not listening to what the parent is saying rather than fixing this single instance. On the other hand, it is easy for kids to get rowdy without realizing it and this method seems to fix that particular issue well.

neumann_alfred 14y ago
Don't deceive them, let them be kids, yadda yadda are almost funny to read. Like you said, walk a mile in the parents' shoes. Or, have had the luxury of having great parents who never bothered playing such mind games with you. Of course, since such gifted parents are rare, it's easy to simply dismiss such a high standard. But once you go non-bullshit, it's just hard to go back.
- incision 14y ago
  >Or, have had the luxury of having great parents who never bothered playing such mind games with you. Of course, since such gifted parents are rare, it's easy to simply dismiss such a high standard. But once you go non-bullshit, it's just hard to go back. It's interesting that you're responding from the perspective of a child to a statement from the perspective of a parent. Do you have children?
  - neumann_alfred 14y ago
    It's interesting that you're responding from the perspective of a child to a statement from the perspective of a parent. Yeah, it's almost as if it's a relationship between two humans, instead of a one-way input pipe. Do you have children? What makes you ask? That I respect kids more than quite a bunch of folks who are actually raising some? Or is that just an attempt to dismiss what I said without addressing it? That shit is getting real old.
    - CodeMage 14y ago
      What makes you ask? I don't know why @incision asked, so I can't speak for him or her. However, I know why I would ask you the same question: I would be curious whether you were simply speaking out of profound ignorance and entitlement or whether there was actually any credibility to back up your stance. That I respect kids more than quite a bunch of folks who are actually raising some? This has nothing to do with respect and a lot to do with hard-earned experience, which you don't have. And I say hard-earned because there's no decent parent out there that doesn't regret a whole lot of mistakes they made while they were bringing up their kids. Your attitude of moral superiority is not only undeserved, but it's also quite insulting. Or is that just an attempt to dismiss what I said without addressing it? That shit is getting real old. Is it? Funny, from where I stand, it looks like you were coming up with criticism and theories you never bothered to verify in any way, just because you feel entitled and I can tell you: that shit has been ancient before I was born. I suggest you read Steve Yegge's "Have you ever legalized marijuana?" [1] or, if you're short on time, a relevant XKCD [2]. [1]: http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2009/04/have-you-ever-legalized-marijuana.html http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2009/04/have-you-ever-legali... [2]: http://xkcd.com/793/ http://xkcd.com/793/

kmfrk 14y ago

That's just the weird cargo-cult "hacker mentality" intersecting with parenting. People would submit articles entitled "How I hacked my children", if it weren't because there was a nagging feeling in the back of their skull that something wasn't right about this attitude. Doesn't stop people from applying it to everything else, though.

ChuckMcM 14y ago

This. Got into a moderately long discussion with a co-worker about filtering out access to MySpace (it was a while ago :-) and chat access for my kids when they were younger. They were of the opinion that I was really damaging my kids by creating this barrier between them and the 'real world' and it wasn't like they weren't going to get there eventually. The conversation meandered into manners, swearing, all sorts of things. It was only then that I realized they didn't actually have kids, and said as much "So, you don't actually have kids do you?" and they sputtered a bit and admitted that no, they didn't. But they had a couple of nieces and nephews they knew pretty well and kids were kids. I just thanked them and ended the conversation. If you are not a parent, evaluating parenting strategies is not possible, just like evaluating sexual positions if you're a virgin just doesn't work out. You need to be 'experienced' as Jimmy Hendrix famously said, to flip the bit in your brain associated with that experience before you can effectively evaluate different choices. Sad but true.

001sky 14y ago
If you are not a parent, evaluating parenting strategies is not possible As devil's advocate, i would argue this is not true. There are externalities to any strategy. And one can judge the impact of strategy X on people outside the immediate family. This is perhaps a caveat outside the scope of the context, but when evaluating things generally is worth pointing out.
- abstractbill 14y ago
  I think it's not quite literally true, but if you wanted to evaluate parenting strategies and were not a parent, you would have to put a lot of effort into observing parents (as opposed to just thinking about it a lot).
  - neumann_alfred 14y ago
    Since it's all just anecdotal anyway, I also like to think back to teachers and other adults. As a general rule, those who treated me "as an equal" (not an actual equal, but without condescension or trickery that wasn't for the purpose of humour or pain/fright relief), I loved to learn from, did never mind to be corrected by. The rest? I found holes in their facade and had at them. Nature abhors a vacuum, and strong children abhor fake authority. Weak parents think disrespect is the problem, when often enough it's their own weakness. Children aren't "programmed" by nature to be a pain in the ass, far from it. They are "programmed" to learn, to be curious, and to love even. It actually takes quite a bit of fuckery to destroy that, but our society is good at it. And then those kids become parents and perpetuate it.

incision 14y ago

>...individuals who all have their own needs and will need to be taught and treated differently. So, so true. I find it's a common source of frustration and tool of rationalization to blindly apply what appears to have "worked" for one kid to all of the rest, expecting if not demanding the same result. Kids aren't uniform data ready for predictable processing. >Worse, I have a strong feeling most of them haven't talked to a kid in years, much less ever raised one. Child-rearing is such a magnet for expert advice given from a position of zero practical experience. There are all sorts of things in life that would be more applicable to speak authoritatively on with only theory to work from, but I rarely see the same kind of absolute assuredness anywhere else. I'm thinking folks tend to take their own childhood as years of "factual" evidence and experience in the matter.