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Because the "truthful" method doesn't get the desired results. I'm a father (and I also remember something about being a kid) and I can tell you that 4 year ol

Because the "truthful" method doesn't get the desired results. I'm a father (and I also remember something about being a kid) and I can tell you that 4 year old kids are unbelievably egocentric. A lot of the rules adults try to impose that are perfectly reasonable to anyone with enough empathy seem completely arbitrary to a 4 year old. So, "don't yell because that distracts/bothers me" is an "arbitrary" rule coming from a "cranky" dad. "I put a script in the machine that will shut down the screen if you yell too loud" gets translated into "I don't want you to yell", which is, again, an "arbitrary" rule kids don't care about. On the other hand, "computer doesn't like loud sounds" is a perfectly "reasonable" rule, because the computer is "in charge" of letting you play the game. You disturb the computer, the computer reacts. And you can't argue with it or try to manipulate it. Crying at it or throwing a temper tantrum won't do any good. It has no mouth, so you can't have a conversation with it. In short, you have to follow its rules. If you want to avoid having the kids jump to the "logical" conclusion that the machine is a person, you can formulate it differently: instead of saying "the computer doesn't like loud sounds", you can say "the computer is a machine that doesn't work well when there's a lot of yelling". Then again, someone else already pointed out that kids believe that an old, fat man can come down their chimney and leave gifts in a matter of minutes -- and do so for every kid in the freaking world -- without suffering any psychological scars from an "untruthful" method of influencing their behavior (because Santa brings gifts only to kids who are "good"), so I don't see what the big deal is with going through a short period of believing the machine is a person.

maeon3 14y ago
When I discover anyone has deceived me successfully, my shields are up around them, forever, because a deceiver is always a deceiver, I always have to spend more cpu cycles to wonder: "Are they deceiving me now"? This could be an elaborate lesson for the kid to teach them about deception. But it looks to me like this is a dysfunctional family in the making. When you break the bond of trust, it takes YEARS to get it back, and for me, it's like 5 years. Father is playing with fire here, and I'd kick that guy in the shins and post an image to reddit for all to laugh, why? Because it's FUNNY!
- stch2 14y ago
  So how many years did it take for you to recover from finding out Santa wasn't real?
  - maeon3 14y ago
    My parents didn't tell me Santa was real, unlike most families, they have NEVER once lied to me. As such I am a highly productive citizen about to retire to entrepreneurship early 30's. I find your response stemming from a false assumption as evidence that you are spending too much of your neural network trying to deal with the deceivers in your life. Instead of having success, coming to right conclusions about things, you instead come to false conclusions, evidence of failure, can't get things right the first time. I find it disturbing and yet an addition to my understanding of how present-emotional people work. Without automations for the lower classes our society would not run as is. When you get back into work Monday morning, you did your thing wrong, you'll have to correct that as well.
    - stch2 14y ago
      "I find your response stemming from a false assumption as evidence that you are spending too much of your neural network trying to deal with the deceivers in your life." Really, you got all that because I assumed your parents lied to you about Santa Claus, just like the majority of parents in the US? Honestly, I'd love for you to continue ranting. I'm all ears, it's a lot of fun to read. I promise I'll read it.
- SoftwareMaven 14y ago
  I think you are 1) applying a different age's mental model onto a much younger one and 2) describing a much stronger deception than what actually exists here. People anthropomorphism objects all the time. Kids do it even more than adults. This action isn't going to cause psychological damage and, if it does, it is only because it existed already from something much more serious.
- angersock 14y ago
  You must be a riot at parties. So, if a deceiver is always a deceiver, what do you do if they tell you they are a deceiver? beep boop does not compute
andrewflnr 14y ago
Actually, if you just say "it doesn't work well when there's a lot of yelling", that's basically a true statement, even if the only reason is the script you added. ;) But it doesn't work to just say "I put this script there because I, not the computer, am in charge of letting you play the game"?
- CodeMage 14y ago
  Depends on what you mean by "works". If you want it to have any effect whatsoever, you have to follow through and actually turn off the game. And you'll have to do so until the lesson sinks in. And you'll have to deal with the kids that are crying and idle in the mean time. And they'll probably resent you for that rule because they aren't able to identify with it. None of the above is a bad thing or an insurmountable obstacle, but there's nothing seriously wrong with making the computer take the blame either. In my opinion, it ends up teaching the kids to be considerate to others (even if it's just a computer), with less suffering all around. YMMV, etc.

maeon3 14y ago

When I discover anyone has deceived me successfully, my shields are up around them, forever, because a deceiver is always a deceiver, I always have to spend more cpu cycles to wonder: "Are they deceiving me now"? This could be an elaborate lesson for the kid to teach them about deception. But it looks to me like this is a dysfunctional family in the making. When you break the bond of trust, it takes YEARS to get it back, and for me, it's like 5 years. Father is playing with fire here, and I'd kick that guy in the shins and post an image to reddit for all to laugh, why? Because it's FUNNY!

stch2 14y ago
So how many years did it take for you to recover from finding out Santa wasn't real?
- maeon3 14y ago
  My parents didn't tell me Santa was real, unlike most families, they have NEVER once lied to me. As such I am a highly productive citizen about to retire to entrepreneurship early 30's. I find your response stemming from a false assumption as evidence that you are spending too much of your neural network trying to deal with the deceivers in your life. Instead of having success, coming to right conclusions about things, you instead come to false conclusions, evidence of failure, can't get things right the first time. I find it disturbing and yet an addition to my understanding of how present-emotional people work. Without automations for the lower classes our society would not run as is. When you get back into work Monday morning, you did your thing wrong, you'll have to correct that as well.
  - stch2 14y ago
    "I find your response stemming from a false assumption as evidence that you are spending too much of your neural network trying to deal with the deceivers in your life." Really, you got all that because I assumed your parents lied to you about Santa Claus, just like the majority of parents in the US? Honestly, I'd love for you to continue ranting. I'm all ears, it's a lot of fun to read. I promise I'll read it.
SoftwareMaven 14y ago
I think you are 1) applying a different age's mental model onto a much younger one and 2) describing a much stronger deception than what actually exists here. People anthropomorphism objects all the time. Kids do it even more than adults. This action isn't going to cause psychological damage and, if it does, it is only because it existed already from something much more serious.
angersock 14y ago
You must be a riot at parties. So, if a deceiver is always a deceiver, what do you do if they tell you they are a deceiver? beep boop does not compute

andrewflnr 14y ago

Actually, if you just say "it doesn't work well when there's a lot of yelling", that's basically a true statement, even if the only reason is the script you added. ;) But it doesn't work to just say "I put this script there because I, not the computer, am in charge of letting you play the game"?

CodeMage 14y ago
Depends on what you mean by "works". If you want it to have any effect whatsoever, you have to follow through and actually turn off the game. And you'll have to do so until the lesson sinks in. And you'll have to deal with the kids that are crying and idle in the mean time. And they'll probably resent you for that rule because they aren't able to identify with it. None of the above is a bad thing or an insurmountable obstacle, but there's nothing seriously wrong with making the computer take the blame either. In my opinion, it ends up teaching the kids to be considerate to others (even if it's just a computer), with less suffering all around. YMMV, etc.