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Site is down, but as for the title from the OP, I agree to some extent. I think recruiters are a decent way to find some of the jobs that aren't found via inde
by hakaaaaak 14y ago
Site is down, but as for the title from the OP, I agree to some extent.
I think recruiters are a decent way to find some of the jobs that aren't found via indeed.com alerts, fog creek's careers 2.0, top*jobs.com, dice (nasty), execunet, HN, etc.
But on the bad side:
Once you are on the list, they will look up your work number and call you if you just put your employer's name on your resume. The only way to get them not to do this is to remove employer names from linkedin.com experience, which you shouldn't do, so it is inevitable. They will not pay attention to requests not to do this.
They equate pay rate without benefits for short-term contract to salary rate full-time with lots of benefits. If you decide to give them pay rate expectation (not always a good idea), give them both your salary expectation and a much higher contract rate that assumes a 3-6 month contract- divide your annual salary expectation by 1000 and that is your per hour, in general.
Why they are what they are:
Average larger sized recruiting companies take almost anymore to get on the phones, and those companies burn them up and move to the next, so it isn't the actual person's fault in many cases. They are given visions of dollar signs when hired and see us like an untapped oil field, and they don't know what they are doing. They want to make the "sale", so they are going to fudge it, and when they later feel used and like the scum of the earth because they got stepped on by us, they quit and someone takes their place. The ones that can justify running through us like we are numbers to be manipulated stay, so it is natural evolution that is not in our best interest.
Advice for those really serious about using a recruiter:
Don't treat them like scum and spend the time with them, even though it might take 10x or more of your time. Let them take you to free lunches and breakfasts. Don't lie to them, but don't tell them everything. They will remember and appreciate the love and will at least maybe write good notes on you and keep you on the hot list so when something comes up, they might call you first.
What I do:
I am an introvert, so I push all conversation to email that I can and don't take calls, ever, until there is an opp I'm interested in that I know is in the right salary range, right location (not just city), and right job description. They still email positions that don't match all the time, but I don't like the idea of lunches, etc. with someone I don't know about positions I might never want.
- Nursie 14y agoI really don't get the divide-salary-by-1000 thing. Is this a US rule? In the UK I'm taking home enough from a contractor rate that I would need to nearly double the salary part of calculation to have the same income.
- route66 14y agoIt encodes the assumption that you count on plus/minus 1000 billable hours in a year.
- swalberg 14y agoThere are roughly 2000 working hours in a year, so annual_salary / 2000 = hourly rate of a salaried employee. And as a rule of thumb, contractors need to make about twice the hourly rate of a salaried employee in order to come out even. So annual_salary / 1000 is roughly the equivalent contractor rate.
- Timothee 14y agoI just wanted to add that the difference of 1000 hours come from time spent looking for and dealing with contracts and other overhead like that (as well as downtime), which you don't have as a salaried employee.
- Nursie 14y agoI'm pretty sure that overhead and downtime don't count for half the working year!! At least not for any contractor I know.
- moron4hire 14y agoDepends on your market and industry.
- Nursie 14y agoThis misses out the effect of the tax advantage of being self-employed, which is massive. I'm actually a little under the salary/1000 rate in my contracting as compared to my last permanent role, but bring home about 50% more. --edit-- I understand this is because I have no trouble getting work, but that seems a weird thing to include.
- brandall10 14y ago"Don't treat them like scum and spend the time with them, even though it might take 10x or more of your time." Absolutely agree. I have 3 recruiters I've worked with for several years - each one has gotten interviews that either ended in an offer or a pass, but none ended up with actual employment. But they've consistently worked to find things that fit my interests over the years, and in turn I give them advice about how to better work with talent. Now I'm off the market as a remote consultant working for a couple startups they all seemed to genuinely wish me well.