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This seems to be a matter of confusion over the rules more than anything (though it sounds like there were some clear cut cases as well). After all, it sounds l

by duaneb 14y ago

This seems to be a matter of confusion over the rules more than anything (though it sounds like there were some clear cut cases as well). After all, it sounds like they were able to use everything but each other for the exams, which seems like an atrocious way to prepare students for the "real world".

niggler 14y ago
The real world isn't a series of read and regurgitate cycles, and allowing students to use resources shifts the test focus from memorizing details to understanding. In the same vein, I also find interviewing by nitpicking to be poorly reflective of real world work -- when you are actually programming, you have access to tools like linters and google to help you when you are chasing down a bug (and its not entirely clear how asking very subtle issues in a stressful situation like an interview represents the realities of working for the company)
- dbaupp 14y ago
  I think duaneb is saying that not being able to work with the other students is not like the real world, rather saying that than being able to use all the other resources is unrealistic.
- duaneb 14y ago
  I meant more that in the real world you are not only expected but often required to work with your peers. > In the same vein, I also find interviewing by nitpicking to be poorly reflective of real world work -- when you are actually programming, you have access to tools like linters and google to help you when you are chasing down a bug (and its not entirely clear how asking very subtle issues in a stressful situation like an interview represents the realities of working for the company) In my recent interviews I've been encouraged to google in front of my interviewers if I didn't know something because they considered it crucial. So perhaps this is changing?
rorrr 14y ago
So how do you suggest they test students personally, without assholes taking advantage of the nice students who do all the work?
- duaneb 14y ago
  > So how do you suggest they test students personally, without assholes taking advantage of the nice students who do all the work? If that was their intention, why did they allow open book, open internet, etc? Far better would be in-class timed tests and essays. EDIT: Well, there is also merit to the approach they used, so perhaps they just should have been far more explicit about what collaboration is OK and what isn't. Come to think of it, I'm not quite sure where to draw the line myself, so I just err on the side of caution and don't discuss anything that could be graded until after deadlines have passed.

by duaneb 14y ago

niggler 14y ago

The real world isn't a series of read and regurgitate cycles, and allowing students to use resources shifts the test focus from memorizing details to understanding. In the same vein, I also find interviewing by nitpicking to be poorly reflective of real world work -- when you are actually programming, you have access to tools like linters and google to help you when you are chasing down a bug (and its not entirely clear how asking very subtle issues in a stressful situation like an interview represents the realities of working for the company)

dbaupp 14y ago
I think duaneb is saying that not being able to work with the other students is not like the real world, rather saying that than being able to use all the other resources is unrealistic.
duaneb 14y ago
I meant more that in the real world you are not only expected but often required to work with your peers. > In the same vein, I also find interviewing by nitpicking to be poorly reflective of real world work -- when you are actually programming, you have access to tools like linters and google to help you when you are chasing down a bug (and its not entirely clear how asking very subtle issues in a stressful situation like an interview represents the realities of working for the company) In my recent interviews I've been encouraged to google in front of my interviewers if I didn't know something because they considered it crucial. So perhaps this is changing?

rorrr 14y ago

So how do you suggest they test students personally, without assholes taking advantage of the nice students who do all the work?

duaneb 14y ago
> So how do you suggest they test students personally, without assholes taking advantage of the nice students who do all the work? If that was their intention, why did they allow open book, open internet, etc? Far better would be in-class timed tests and essays. EDIT: Well, there is also merit to the approach they used, so perhaps they just should have been far more explicit about what collaboration is OK and what isn't. Come to think of it, I'm not quite sure where to draw the line myself, so I just err on the side of caution and don't discuss anything that could be graded until after deadlines have passed.