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Is it really an excuse though? Some designers can be good at both sides, sure, but my experience is that many designers simply cannot. Their mind blanks at the

by hilko 14y ago

Is it really an excuse though? Some designers can be good at both sides, sure, but my experience is that many designers simply cannot. Their mind blanks at the most basic programming concepts, and the level of abstraction needed for practical HTML and CSS is just too much. Believe me, I've tried. This works both ways too. I've met many developers who seem absolutely incapable of producing good designs. Even if I can convince them that design is important, and teach them basic design principles, their lack of innate caring about this is a big stumbling block. Technically, one could argue that anything that has rules applied to it is learnable, but practically that's just not true. Some people just have no sense of rhythm or tone, for example, and regardless of how much music theory you teach them, they can't produce good music. Now, on a more psychological note. I've found that most really good designers I meet are a certain type of person, far removed from the really good programmers I meet. I can't recall the last time I met this rare person who is really good at both, although I'm sure they exist. Using myself as an example: I'm for the most part a geek who started programming early in life, but intentionally switched to study psychology/communications and engage in more social/presentational activities, and finally move back to 'lite-programming' as a web developer. I am acutely aware of the fact that for great design I need help, and for great programming I need help too. Despite the fact that I'm an intelligent, talented individual, I simply cannot commit to one without creating a deficiency in the other. Hell, I might not even be capable enough for it. I sometimes feel I'm too messy, gung-ho, and fidgety for serious programming, but too rule-based and logical-minded for the type of creativity that leads to great designs. I'm content with that, but I suspect most people either fit in my camp, in the camp of great designers, or the camp of great programmers. It's simply unrealistic to use those few who excel at both as a yardstick of any kind. (apologies for this rant, it's perhaps more appropriate in the thread as a whole than as a specific reply to you...)

Draiken 14y ago
I agree with everything you say except for the "I simply cannot commit to one without creating a deficiency in the other". IMHO achieving excellence in both is unrealistic and VERY hard. Doable but improbable. But I really do think you can be good at both. Not perfect, not exceptional, but good. And for 99% of the world, good is more than enough. The excuse part, is because I have met an enormous amount of people that use that as an excuse to not learn new things (IMHO, to be lazy). Yes, it's hard to understand programming, but many people simply accept the "if I learn this my design will suffer" (and vice-versa). With that in mind, they don't even have to try. I also agree completely about the theory/reality dilemma, people are very different and can never be treated as the same. My only problem is with people that excuse themselves from learning something new on false premises.

by hilko 14y ago

Draiken 14y ago

I agree with everything you say except for the "I simply cannot commit to one without creating a deficiency in the other". IMHO achieving excellence in both is unrealistic and VERY hard. Doable but improbable. But I really do think you can be good at both. Not perfect, not exceptional, but good. And for 99% of the world, good is more than enough. The excuse part, is because I have met an enormous amount of people that use that as an excuse to not learn new things (IMHO, to be lazy). Yes, it's hard to understand programming, but many people simply accept the "if I learn this my design will suffer" (and vice-versa). With that in mind, they don't even have to try. I also agree completely about the theory/reality dilemma, people are very different and can never be treated as the same. My only problem is with people that excuse themselves from learning something new on false premises.