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A friend of mine who follows you/your work is convinced you, unlike most HNers, aren't soaking in the particular startup cliché I'm talking about. That you aren

A friend of mine who follows you/your work is convinced you, unlike most HNers, aren't soaking in the particular startup cliché I'm talking about. That you aren't aware of its epidemic-like prevalence. My side of the conversation doesn't make sense, if you aren't. Go to a few tech meetups and count the times you hear "changing the world!@!" about something that is truly, at best, a diversion. Repeat several times a year. Also read the posts here from startups who are hiring, count the times they say "change the world" "revolutionize the xyz" etc. See how many of them actually do anything that you or I would consider world-changing.[1] Then see if you don't agree with me about the phrase. :) At any rate, I'm not arguing with you, I don't know you. I'm arguing with the startup world's obsession with the phrase, and the epidemic of grandiosity that infects it. It's literally killing people. That's my beef. [1] I don't actually recommend you doing all these things because it would probably depress you. It depresses me!

danso 14y ago
I don't know you either but I can tell you're intelligent enough to give the benefit of the doubt to, so I'm only halfassedly getting into this debate...either that, or it's Friday :) I'm not steeped deep in the startup world, personally, but I get enough exposure through friends and through HN to know what you're talking about and don't blame you for being jaded. I just thought -- and was probably a bit picky about it -- that your cynicism went a slight step farther than it needed to. OK, let's assume a lot of startups are cynically using "world changing" as a way to attract hype and/or mask the fact that they are shallow-minded professionals. Let's look at startups that are changing the world: Facebook, for example. I'm sure eyes roll every time Mark Zuckerberg talks about FB's world-changing effects...but in FB's case, the problem is that, perhaps, not enough of its developers realize they are changing the world, and that is a problem if the change is negative. I don't disagree with you that some/many/most of digital startups may have delusions of grandeur. But I'd suffer 99 of such fools (assuming that most of them fizzle out) for every 1 person who really does believe that software can change the world, and then sets about to do so. And similarly, I hope that more non-software people who want to change the world continue to take seriously the effects/potential of software (and other logistics), and not just it as some technical operating detail they have to put up with.
- ahoyhere 14y ago
  (serious not snarky) Do you think the people who talk up how they're "changing the world" includes the 1 out of 99 (or fewer) who actually does? I don't. The people I know who are really out there changing the world focus on small effects first, because they know that's the only way to create real and lasting change. They don't try to do it all in one bite and they don't crow about it either. Also, my whole point wasn't that we should shut down people who talk about changing the world, but that those people are creating a situation ripe for depression in themselves. Yeah, it annoys me, but the results -- that its prevalence makes more and more vulnerable people believe this is the way they have to be, and that results potentially in ever more tragedy -- are what drives me to talk about it instead of just ignoring the annoying buggers. To my mind the only cure is A) explaining the facts and costs of grandiosity, and B) introducing a little reality to the equation. You only seem to be objecting to B, but the thing is, it wasn't advice for you… or that 1 in 1,000 who is probably not here in the first place, who wouldn't identify & identify with A, which is the only reason someone would consider me credible enough to listen to.

danso 14y ago

I don't know you either but I can tell you're intelligent enough to give the benefit of the doubt to, so I'm only halfassedly getting into this debate...either that, or it's Friday :) I'm not steeped deep in the startup world, personally, but I get enough exposure through friends and through HN to know what you're talking about and don't blame you for being jaded. I just thought -- and was probably a bit picky about it -- that your cynicism went a slight step farther than it needed to. OK, let's assume a lot of startups are cynically using "world changing" as a way to attract hype and/or mask the fact that they are shallow-minded professionals. Let's look at startups that are changing the world: Facebook, for example. I'm sure eyes roll every time Mark Zuckerberg talks about FB's world-changing effects...but in FB's case, the problem is that, perhaps, not enough of its developers realize they are changing the world, and that is a problem if the change is negative. I don't disagree with you that some/many/most of digital startups may have delusions of grandeur. But I'd suffer 99 of such fools (assuming that most of them fizzle out) for every 1 person who really does believe that software can change the world, and then sets about to do so. And similarly, I hope that more non-software people who want to change the world continue to take seriously the effects/potential of software (and other logistics), and not just it as some technical operating detail they have to put up with.

ahoyhere 14y ago
(serious not snarky) Do you think the people who talk up how they're "changing the world" includes the 1 out of 99 (or fewer) who actually does? I don't. The people I know who are really out there changing the world focus on small effects first, because they know that's the only way to create real and lasting change. They don't try to do it all in one bite and they don't crow about it either. Also, my whole point wasn't that we should shut down people who talk about changing the world, but that those people are creating a situation ripe for depression in themselves. Yeah, it annoys me, but the results -- that its prevalence makes more and more vulnerable people believe this is the way they have to be, and that results potentially in ever more tragedy -- are what drives me to talk about it instead of just ignoring the annoying buggers. To my mind the only cure is A) explaining the facts and costs of grandiosity, and B) introducing a little reality to the equation. You only seem to be objecting to B, but the thing is, it wasn't advice for you… or that 1 in 1,000 who is probably not here in the first place, who wouldn't identify & identify with A, which is the only reason someone would consider me credible enough to listen to.