4 ms·

I was surprised that turning the plane is much harder than landing it.

artmageddon 14y ago
I can't see how that's the case. The author indicates that it takes students a good amount of times to do turns correctly, which means: not losing (much, if any) altitude, not overshooting / undershooting the desired compass heading, using the correct angle of bank that's both comfortable and not risking stall, all while keeping a look outside for other airplanes(assuming you're not relying on instruments). Landing incorporating all of that to set up and execute the pattern, as well as keeping the airplane at a certain airspeed(too fast and you'll land too far down the runway, too slow and you'll stall & crash) and staying aligned with the runway to make sure you actually land on it. FYI, I'm a private pilot with nearly 200 hours.
- chmars 14y ago
  I agree: In my own flying experience, landings have remained the most challenging part of each flight – turns are easy in compassion.
iliis 14y ago
Just getting it to turn is easy. Getting it right is hard for a few reasons: First, instead of the first derivation of direction like a steering wheel in a car the stick/yoke of a plane actually controls the second derivation of the heading, meaning that pushing it a bit to the right not only causes a turn to the right but it will turn right faster and faster. So you steer by pushing/turn the yoke a bit to the right/left and wait until you reached your desired turning rate. Then you move it back into neutral position and wait until you (almost) completed the curve. Then you do push it to the opposite side until your plane is level again. Second, there's not only the rotation along the vertical axis (Yaw) to consider: You also have Pitch (nose up/down) and Roll (rotation along longitudinal axis). What you actually did by pushing the stick to side was rolling the plane which in turn causes it to make a turn because the lifting force of the wings doesn't point straight up anymore but a bit to the inner side of the rotation. So you loose a bit of vertical lift which you have to compensate for because gravity is still the same. To generate more lift you either have to change your angle of attack or your speed. The second can be done by giving a bit more throttle but chanigng the angle of attack is trickier: Your plane hangs 'sideways' in the air so you need both the yoke and the pedals to get it right. Third, because the plane makes a turn the outer wing is a bit faster because it has the longer path (sadly, there aren't any differentials for wings) and because it is faster it generates more lift. Yet another force to account for. And the forth thing that comes to my mind (which applies more for gliders than for motor planes): To fly efficiently (and for other obvious reasons) you don't want to fly in another direction that your noise points at. Eg. you want the plane's longitudinal-axis be tangential to the turning curve. In a car this would be equivalent to skidding and is rather easy to avoid but air offers a lot less friction. Think of driving around in a hoovercraft... Now a landing is trivial: as long as the debris is scattered in the direction of the runway it's considered ok.
- ianstallings 14y ago
  And there's a fifth thing - you are turning the craft in a fluid medium that itself is moving. In order to get a perfect circle you have to account for wind movement throughout the turn.
- arthulia 14y ago
  Is turning with a V-tail aircraft harder/easier/different than a standard tail configuration?
  - iliis 14y ago
    I don't really know, I've never flown one for real. Judging by flying remote-controlled models and the idea that a tail is basically a direct controller of pitch and yaw regardless of form I would say it's not a big difference when turning. Wikipedia says: "Ruddervators provide the same control effect as conventional control surfaces, but through a more complex control system that actuates the control surfaces in unison."
- Nrsolis 14y ago
  I've heard this before: Any landing where everyone walks away is A GOOD LANDING. Any landing where you can also use the plane again is A GREAT LANDING.
  - thesagan 14y ago
    That may hold true if you're the owner of the aircraft, but I'm not so sure for the hired pilot.
jsiarto 14y ago
Former student pilot here: you literally spend countless hours on "coordinated turns" which involve proper use of both roll and yaw controls (ailerons and rudder). It's much more difficult to do it properly than most people think. Also, I would describe landing a small plane--and I've heard others describe it this way--as a "controlled crash." You are basically stalling the thing on top of the runway.
run4yourlives 14y ago
I would disagree. Not many people die from a bad turn unless you stall/spin.
js2 14y ago
At the very heart of winged flight lies the banked turn, a procedure that by now seems so routine and familiar that airline passengers appreciate neither its elegance and mystery nor its dangerously delusive character. The author, a pilot, takes us up into the subject - http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/unbound/langew/turn.htm http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/unbound/langew/turn.htm
- venus 14y ago
  Thanks. Excellent article.

I can't see how that's the case. The author indicates that it takes students a good amount of times to do turns correctly, which means: not losing (much, if any) altitude, not overshooting / undershooting the desired compass heading, using the correct angle of bank that's both comfortable and not risking stall, all while keeping a look outside for other airplanes(assuming you're not relying on instruments). Landing incorporating all of that to set up and execute the pattern, as well as keeping the airplane at a certain airspeed(too fast and you'll land too far down the runway, too slow and you'll stall & crash) and staying aligned with the runway to make sure you actually land on it. FYI, I'm a private pilot with nearly 200 hours.

chmars 14y ago
I agree: In my own flying experience, landings have remained the most challenging part of each flight – turns are easy in compassion.

iliis 14y ago

Just getting it to turn is easy. Getting it right is hard for a few reasons: First, instead of the first derivation of direction like a steering wheel in a car the stick/yoke of a plane actually controls the second derivation of the heading, meaning that pushing it a bit to the right not only causes a turn to the right but it will turn right faster and faster. So you steer by pushing/turn the yoke a bit to the right/left and wait until you reached your desired turning rate. Then you move it back into neutral position and wait until you (almost) completed the curve. Then you do push it to the opposite side until your plane is level again. Second, there's not only the rotation along the vertical axis (Yaw) to consider: You also have Pitch (nose up/down) and Roll (rotation along longitudinal axis). What you actually did by pushing the stick to side was rolling the plane which in turn causes it to make a turn because the lifting force of the wings doesn't point straight up anymore but a bit to the inner side of the rotation. So you loose a bit of vertical lift which you have to compensate for because gravity is still the same. To generate more lift you either have to change your angle of attack or your speed. The second can be done by giving a bit more throttle but chanigng the angle of attack is trickier: Your plane hangs 'sideways' in the air so you need both the yoke and the pedals to get it right. Third, because the plane makes a turn the outer wing is a bit faster because it has the longer path (sadly, there aren't any differentials for wings) and because it is faster it generates more lift. Yet another force to account for. And the forth thing that comes to my mind (which applies more for gliders than for motor planes): To fly efficiently (and for other obvious reasons) you don't want to fly in another direction that your noise points at. Eg. you want the plane's longitudinal-axis be tangential to the turning curve. In a car this would be equivalent to skidding and is rather easy to avoid but air offers a lot less friction. Think of driving around in a hoovercraft... Now a landing is trivial: as long as the debris is scattered in the direction of the runway it's considered ok.

ianstallings 14y ago
And there's a fifth thing - you are turning the craft in a fluid medium that itself is moving. In order to get a perfect circle you have to account for wind movement throughout the turn.
arthulia 14y ago
Is turning with a V-tail aircraft harder/easier/different than a standard tail configuration?
- iliis 14y ago
  I don't really know, I've never flown one for real. Judging by flying remote-controlled models and the idea that a tail is basically a direct controller of pitch and yaw regardless of form I would say it's not a big difference when turning. Wikipedia says: "Ruddervators provide the same control effect as conventional control surfaces, but through a more complex control system that actuates the control surfaces in unison."
Nrsolis 14y ago
I've heard this before: Any landing where everyone walks away is A GOOD LANDING. Any landing where you can also use the plane again is A GREAT LANDING.
- thesagan 14y ago
  That may hold true if you're the owner of the aircraft, but I'm not so sure for the hired pilot.

jsiarto 14y ago

Former student pilot here: you literally spend countless hours on "coordinated turns" which involve proper use of both roll and yaw controls (ailerons and rudder). It's much more difficult to do it properly than most people think. Also, I would describe landing a small plane--and I've heard others describe it this way--as a "controlled crash." You are basically stalling the thing on top of the runway.

run4yourlives 14y ago

I would disagree. Not many people die from a bad turn unless you stall/spin.

js2 14y ago

At the very heart of winged flight lies the banked turn, a procedure that by now seems so routine and familiar that airline passengers appreciate neither its elegance and mystery nor its dangerously delusive character. The author, a pilot, takes us up into the subject - http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/unbound/langew/turn.htm http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/unbound/langew/turn.htm

venus 14y ago
Thanks. Excellent article.