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How to land an airplane if you are not a pilot

386 points by epochwolf 14y ago

relic 14y ago
I use my spare time at work on full-flight military aircraft simulators to fly around and try things like taking off, landing, etc...it was loads of fun, and once you were competent at landing a functional aircraft, you could try doing it with any combination of aircraft faults. I'm fairly confident I could land a [fully functional] C-130 if my life depended on it. My new challenge is trying to hook up with a tanker, during which I've caused many a catastrophic accident.
- eduardordm 14y ago
  This is how you would crash: you would hit the main gear so hard that the rear would bounce back creating a negative angle of attack, making you do it again until you break the airplane: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ez64Ba98Fto http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ez64Ba98Fto Now, if someone instructs you to ignore what you see and hear a GPWS I'm 100% sure you would be just fine. The first time I landed a larger airplane I hit the ground so hard it I ended up going to the hospital because of a herniated disc (had it before the event) at that time I had 950 hours of flight.
  - Zak 14y ago
    Do modern large aircraft simulators fail to properly account for what happens when you land too hard on the main gear? That seems like exactly the kind of mistake they'd want to simulate accurately.
    - eduardordm 14y ago
      They do, thing is the field of view is not accurate and not 3D, some simulators have a basic 3D rendering (they change the image at frame rate that it 'feels' 3D). So you need to rely on instruments to create a mind image of how high you are. That actually happens not only in simulators: when you are used to land on wide runways, the next time you go land on a narrow one you would flare too low (and approach too low), specially at night. If interested, read this: http://www.avweb.com/news/airman/182402-1.html http://www.avweb.com/news/airman/182402-1.html
      - Evbn 14y ago
        Hmm, I would hope for markers at fixed distances, regardless of the runway size.
epochwolf 14y ago
I was surprised that turning the plane is much harder than landing it.
- artmageddon 14y ago
  I can't see how that's the case. The author indicates that it takes students a good amount of times to do turns correctly, which means: not losing (much, if any) altitude, not overshooting / undershooting the desired compass heading, using the correct angle of bank that's both comfortable and not risking stall, all while keeping a look outside for other airplanes(assuming you're not relying on instruments). Landing incorporating all of that to set up and execute the pattern, as well as keeping the airplane at a certain airspeed(too fast and you'll land too far down the runway, too slow and you'll stall & crash) and staying aligned with the runway to make sure you actually land on it. FYI, I'm a private pilot with nearly 200 hours.
  - chmars 14y ago
    I agree: In my own flying experience, landings have remained the most challenging part of each flight – turns are easy in compassion.
- iliis 14y ago
  Just getting it to turn is easy. Getting it right is hard for a few reasons: First, instead of the first derivation of direction like a steering wheel in a car the stick/yoke of a plane actually controls the second derivation of the heading, meaning that pushing it a bit to the right not only causes a turn to the right but it will turn right faster and faster. So you steer by pushing/turn the yoke a bit to the right/left and wait until you reached your desired turning rate. Then you move it back into neutral position and wait until you (almost) completed the curve. Then you do push it to the opposite side until your plane is level again. Second, there's not only the rotation along the vertical axis (Yaw) to consider: You also have Pitch (nose up/down) and Roll (rotation along longitudinal axis). What you actually did by pushing the stick to side was rolling the plane which in turn causes it to make a turn because the lifting force of the wings doesn't point straight up anymore but a bit to the inner side of the rotation. So you loose a bit of vertical lift which you have to compensate for because gravity is still the same. To generate more lift you either have to change your angle of attack or your speed. The second can be done by giving a bit more throttle but chanigng the angle of attack is trickier: Your plane hangs 'sideways' in the air so you need both the yoke and the pedals to get it right. Third, because the plane makes a turn the outer wing is a bit faster because it has the longer path (sadly, there aren't any differentials for wings) and because it is faster it generates more lift. Yet another force to account for. And the forth thing that comes to my mind (which applies more for gliders than for motor planes): To fly efficiently (and for other obvious reasons) you don't want to fly in another direction that your noise points at. Eg. you want the plane's longitudinal-axis be tangential to the turning curve. In a car this would be equivalent to skidding and is rather easy to avoid but air offers a lot less friction. Think of driving around in a hoovercraft... Now a landing is trivial: as long as the debris is scattered in the direction of the runway it's considered ok.
neya 14y ago
[Personal rant] - I'd much rather get a parachute and jump the heck out. Probability of my survival would be much higher, then, I guess :D
- jevinskie 14y ago
  The problem is getting your parachute past TSA. I doubt they would buy the "just in case" reasoning. =)
  - davidw 14y ago
    The article seemed more about small airplanes. Big ones have a series of people who would probably be in line to try and fly them before "random passengers with no experience". I don't know anything about planes, but "look for a parachute after you've stabilized the plane" doesn't sound like the worst possible idea, depending on the status of the pilot and other passengers.
  - aplusbi 14y ago
    Plenty of skydivers and base jumpers travel (with gear) to go jumping. The TSA might look at you funny* but there is certainly nothing illegal about carrying on a chute. * Of course everything is always at the discretion of the TSA agent, they can prevent you from getting on a plane because they don't like the shirt you are wearing.
- neurotech1 14y ago
  That would have a 99.99% chance of killing the pilot, unless they happen to be flying a T-6 Texan (turboprop USAF trainer) or something, in which case the Martin-Baker ejection seat would help. It would be very difficult to put an unconscious pilot hooked into a tandem parachute.
  - eddieroger 14y ago
    I didn't get the impression that neya is too concerned about the pilot's safety, or anyone else on the flight for that matter. Seems like a solo jump to me.
mcargian 14y ago
There was a bet on another forum. Could someone with only flight simulator experience take off, fly the pattern and land a single engine plane on their first try. I won't spoil it for you, read the thread here: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/34/other-other-topics/prop-bet-can-i-land-plane-first-try-1200028/ http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/34/other-other-topics/prop...
- djloche 14y ago
  here's the "trip report" for that one: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/34/other-other-topics/prop-bet-can-i-land-plane-first-try-1200028/index41.html#post35915547 http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/34/other-other-topics/prop...
  - epochwolf 14y ago
    Thank you, I was skimming through a lot of posts to find that.
  - revelation 14y ago
    And here is the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJT_CACIZqs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJT_CACIZqs The trip report will spoil the outcome, so the video is somewhat more nerve-wrecking.
    - danabramov 14y ago
      I was thinking something more in line with this Fry & Laurie sketch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klZ2suVUL7Q http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klZ2suVUL7Q
  - cataflam 14y ago
    Also the trip report from the pilot : http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=36010398&postcount=722 http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=36010398&#3... (the parent is the trip report from the flight instructor) Very interesting to see his change of perspective and thought process during the flight, especially : My confidence level was extremely high prior to the flight, as in I really thought I was a pick 'em to do this, as in even money. 5 to 1, 20 to 1, 100 to 1?? No effing way; I was sure I had a really good chance at success. (...) There is really no other way to describe what happened next: I panicked. I did quickly bank the plane right to get it back over the runway, and this was pure habit from the simulator, which mimicked this part of the flight perfectly. But in the immediate seconds after take off, the first thing I thought was, I can't do this. (...) But the nose kept generally pointed forward, and the plane kept its general climb attitude, and I settled down. That is, I settled down from a state of total terror, to just general major concern.
Volpe 14y ago
I feel like this is equivalent to: "how to fix a bug when you don't know how to program"... I could write as much as you like but there is an explanatory gap...
- artmageddon 14y ago
  I can see the connection, but there are "emergency landing" courses that people can take at nearby airports that specifically teach non-pilots how to land an airplane safely if they are ever flying and an emergency happens to the pilot.
- whatshisface 14y ago
  If your life depended on the bug being fixed, articles like that would be justified... (even if they can only help .01% that's still worth it.)
- rquantz 14y ago
  It's more like "How to recover and redeploy WebApp X after total server/data loss when you are not a programmer or sysadmin." There are a defined set of things that need to be done or could go wrong.
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GiraffeNecktie 14y ago
Over the years there have been a few joyriders with little or no flight experience who have stolen planes. Some landed ok some not so ok. http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1870&dat=19801116&id=ZPowAAAAIBAJ&sjid=O-AFAAAAIBAJ&pg=5609,963782 http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1870&dat=19801116&...
- dredmorbius 14y ago
  Just reading that makes me realize how much time has passed. Can you imagine the criminal prosecution of those kids if they were to do that today? No "three years of juvie max, likely community service". Particularly in Texas.
dendory 14y ago
People who enjoy this type of article may like a presentation I made a while back at http://dendory.net/ALS http://dendory.net/ALS Note that this isn't meant to allow you to land a plane, and honestly I doubt many people should try their hands at it by just reading this one article either. I think in most cases it would be better just to have the ATC help you in how to set the autopilot to land the plane for you, when that's an option.
- chmars 14y ago
  ATC staff is not trained for that. If an ATC can help you with that, it's pure coincidence due to piloting training outside her or his ATC job.
  - dendory 14y ago
    ATC should be trained to get you the help you need if you're a passenger piloting a plane with a disabled pilot. They can get a pilot to come up in the tower, or get one on the phone.
    - lutorm 14y ago
      There are probably many pilots on the frequency that would be happy to help. Also, it would probably be helpful to have a "wingman" who can tell you things like whether you are too high or low, fast or slow, directly.
    - chmars 14y ago
      They would certainly try but it's not part of their standard training. The reason is simply that events where both (or even more pilots depending on the aircraft model) are incapacitated are extremely rare. In addition, air traffic control is not responsible for flying the aircraft, that remains the pilots' task for the time being.
  - chmars 14y ago
    It's interesting that my comment gets downvoted for stating a simple fact about training and knowledge in air traffic control (ATC). In 2008, there was even a fatal accident in Zürich, Switzerland where the inadequate training of air traffic controllers with regard to piloting an aircraft contributed to the accident (although it was not the cause of the accident): 'The following factors created conditions for the accident or favoured its occurrence: […] * An inadequate understanding within air traffic control of the significance of faults and emergencies on single-engine light aircraft flown by a single pilot in challenging weather conditions.' http://www.bfu.admin.ch/common/pdf/2146_e.pdf http://www.bfu.admin.ch/common/pdf/2146_e.pdf Swiss air traffic controllers do 25 hours of flight training in small aircraft, so they have a basic idea of piloting an aircraft. In case of a declared or suspected emergency, they will give full priority to the aircraft in need and will try everything to get the necessary support. However, depending on the type of aircraft, it might not be possible to find a pilot or another expert within the necessary time frame to do a safe talk down – and even with a talk down, a safe outcome would never be guaranteed.
neurotech1 14y ago
One minor detail, if a single-pilot is dead, disabled or incapacitated, it wouldn't be a urgency, with a "PAN PAN" call, it would be an emergency, and the call would be "MAYDAY". I know a few pilots who fly medical transfer flights, and sometimes they have critical medical emergencies in the cabin, and can results in the pilot-in-command (captain) declaring a medical emergency, although they may not actually use the word MAYDAY when declaring medical emergency. Anything that requires EMT trauma response on the runway (eg. life threatening medical situation), Its probably justified in declaring an emergency. A minor scrapes or bruises from turbulence doesn't.
- scrumper 14y ago
  > it would be an emergency, and the call would be "MAYDAY". Came here to say this. An untrained person in control of an aircraft most definitely justifies declaring an emergency. I didn't really like the article. Honestly, if you're in a light aircraft and the pilot conks out you're going to get badly hurt if you survive at all. Landing a plane feels very weird for a very long time. In a big jet you'd have a far better chance: your controller can talk you through setting the autopilot to take you to a big airport, and then have you set autoland. (Of course, that scenario is pure movie fantasy, whereas the first is actually quite likely!) If anyone is interested in this sort of preparation, I'd recommend taking a $50 intro flying lesson or - better - signing up for the AOPA's "Pinch Hitter" course, which is designed to teach non-flying spouses of pilots how to do just this. It's saved a surprising (alarming) number of lives - a lot of private pilots are fat old men who get heart attacks.
  - FireBeyond 14y ago
    "I didn't really like the article. Honestly, if you're in a light aircraft and the pilot conks out you're going to get badly hurt if you survive at all. Landing a plane feels very weird for a very long time. In a big jet you'd have a far better chance: your controller can talk you through setting the autopilot to take you to a big airport, and then have you set autoland. (Of course, that scenario is pure movie fantasy, whereas the first is actually quite likely!)" That, and a commercial jet is going to have a co-pilot in the cabin, and possibly at least one person more familiar with a cockpit than you flying in a jumpseat. If it's an international flight, then there's usually going to be another flight crew on board, too.
HeyLaughingBoy 14y ago
I would really love to know if anyone without training besides reading instructions has ever successfully recovered from a spin (or any unusual attitude) in a real airplane! The first time I spun an airplane it was by accident (OK, all of them were!): my instructor let it happen so I could learn and for the first few seconds it was like "what the fuck did I just do and how do I get out of it?" Even though I "logically" knew we were in a spin, the disorientation of G-forces, the screaming from the stall warning, and rapidly rising engine RPM made my lizard brain very slow to react. Never been happier to hear "I've got the airplane" coming from the right seat :-) OTOH, after that first time, "unusual attitude" training became fun. Amazing what a tiny bit of experience does to the brain.
- saraid216 14y ago
  Not having any pilot training whatsoever, I gotta ask: "attitude" or "altitude"? I could believe the former, but I want to check.
  - dbaupp 14y ago
    I'm not a pilot either, but I'm fairly sure it is the former. I believe "attitude" refers to the angle of the plan with respect to horizontal (so pointing up or down very steeply is an "unusual attitude").
  - rquantz 14y ago
    Attitude -- that would be, the alignment of the plane to the ground.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 14y ago
    Attitude. An "unusual attitude" refers to the aircraft being in a configuration that is not normal in controlled flight (e.g., flying inverted). I think that's close to the FAA definition.
- sootzoo 14y ago
  Spin awareness is definitely weird at first, and I wholeheartedly agree that it's less scary after a bit of experience. Question: did you cover spin recovery? I was under the impression this was basically never done until CFI or CFII.
gnu8 14y ago
To turn the plane 180 degrees, wouldn't it be easier to use the compass than try to find a reference point on the ground?
- jcoby 14y ago
  It depends on the turn. With training you can do gentle turns (std rate, 15° bank) with the artificial horizon, turn coordinator, and watching the compass. When doing standard rate turns I watch the nose on the horizon, the turn coordinator, the compass, and the vertical airspeed indicator. Once you get into 45° and 60° banks the forces are disorienting and it's far easier to look out the window at the ground and the real horizon. Training or not, it's far easier to look out the window to make turns. You can see if the horizon is starting to move. If you sit there and watch the compass you can easily enter a stall or a dive without realizing it. Especially since your turns are not going to be coordinated (you won't be using the rudder effectively so the forces on your head will not be what you're used to).
- serge2k 14y ago
  Compass lags, trying to keep a heading via the heading indicator is trickery than it sounds. Ground references are the way to go.
  - iliis 14y ago
    It can even do the opposite and precede your actual orientiation.
- ianstallings 14y ago
  I won't get into how inaccurate a compass can be in a plane because I understand your meaning - we can turn a plane accurately using instruments. But keep in mind that the first step is to learn how to fly visually using ground references.
- eduardordm 14y ago
  Not really, because by looking outside you would also control the angle and atitude instinctively, you could do it using the compass too, but if you are flying visual you better be looking outside.
ohazi 14y ago
What the hell kind of airplane are you flying where you add power to recover from a stall? Unless you're flying something with a very high thrust to weight ratio, you should nose down to break the stall, then add power afterwards.
- yan 14y ago
  Adding power is one of the first things you learn when covering stalls during the private pilot license progression.
  - jcoby 14y ago
    Pitch, power, airspeed, attitude. Nosing down is the first move.
  - scrumper 14y ago
    In a regular single piston engine aircraft it's nose down, then add power. You always fix angle of attack first. Same applies to a power-on (eg takeoff) stall: nose down.
    - yan 14y ago
      Concur, nose down first. It's not that no one mentions adding power (which is what OP implied). Recovery was always pitch down to regain airspeed while reaching with the other hand to begin adding throttle, but power is still "one of the first things."
- artmageddon 14y ago
  The author has it wrong, and I hope he corrects it. If you hear a buzzing noise, that means the airplane is going to stall if it loses more speed, but there's a chance that the speed is too low given how high the nose might be. Adding too much power at that moment, depending on the exact level of the nose, will cause the plane to lurch upward, which would definitely increase the chances of a stall. The right step would be to lower the nose to get more lift over the wings, and slowly add additional power as more airspeed is gained.
arthulia 14y ago
Hopefully this is a fixed-gear aircraft...
noonespecial 14y ago
During my first flight, my instructor let me try what I could. I was well on my way to crashing short of the runway when he informed me that I was done. Mark one datapoint for "would have died".
maaku 14y ago
Why isn't this posted in cockpits?
jamesaguilar 14y ago
I have a friend who is a small-plane pilot -- think Cessenas, things like that. I asked her, "Would you be able to land a 747 if the pilot died and the copilot was incapacitated or something crazy happened?" She said, "I think so. Get on the radio and ask tower where the autopilot switch is. They can land themselves." Of course this was not in the spirit of the question but I thought it was an entertaining answer.
- raquo 14y ago
  Assuming you somehow learned that they actually died... and you didn't die for the same reason... and you could open the cabin door...
  - ShawnBird 14y ago
    And that whatever killed them did not damage the radio and/or auto pilot.
- hcarvalhoalves 14y ago
  ILS is amazing, it can really land by itself depending on the condition.
  - iliis 14y ago
    Indeed. It also has an interesting and hilarous history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Beams https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Beams "The Battle of the Beams was a period early in the Second World War when bombers of the German Air Force (Luftwaffe) used a number of increasingly accurate systems of radio navigation, developed by Johannes Plendl, for night bombing in England. British "scientific intelligence" at the Air Ministry fought back with a variety of their own increasingly effective means, involving jamming and distortion of the radio waves." "Thus the beam was "bent" away from the target. Eventually, the beams could be bent by a controlled amount which enabled the British to fool the Germans into dropping their bombs where they wanted them. A side effect was that as the German crews had been trained to navigate solely by the beams, many crews failed to find either the true equi-signal or Germany again. Some bombers even landed at RAF bases, believing they were back in Germany."
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- packetslave 14y ago
  what's a "pilot lol"?
  - deleted 14y ago
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cynest 14y ago
A few years ago at AOPA I attended a seminar on this. Turns out the success rate is extremely high provided you are able to get in contact with someone on the ground.
- scrumper 14y ago
  I think this article would have been a lot better if the full word count had been devoted to operating the radio. I don't think the author even mentioned 121.5 (let alone the transponder.) A few pictures of the control yoke PTT button and some common radio panels would help.
  - dsl 14y ago
    Absolutey. Here is a far better version of how to land a plane if you are not a pilot: STEP 0: Don't touch anything. STEP 1: Find the transponder. It looks like one of these: http://www.free-online-private-pilot-ground-school.com/images/transponder.jpg http://www.free-online-private-pilot-ground-school.com/image... or http://www.funkwerk-usa.com/funkwerk/trt800h/trt800h-lg.jpg http://www.funkwerk-usa.com/funkwerk/trt800h/trt800h-lg.jpg STEP 2: Set it to 7700 (emergency) or 7500 (hijacking) STEP 3: Put on the pilots headset and wait, someone will start talking to you and explain how to respond. STEP 4: If you don't hear anything for an extended period of time try to figure out why the radio doesn't work. Then start to panic and put into practice crazy things you read on the internet.
    - neurotech1 14y ago
      How about these points in order: AVIATE: Keep the plane straight & Level. NAVIGATE: Don't hit anything, turn to avoid any mountains etc, otherwise stay straight & level until ATC/Other pilot assistance directs you to the runway. COMMUNICATE: Broadcasting MAYDAY on any common channel is a good first step. CTAF (Common Traffic Aerial Frequency) used by light VFR aircraft. ATC/Tower is also monitored. Most likely the current channel is good to start with. DO NOT Squawk 7500 on the transponder unless a hostile action (hijacker etc.) caused the pilot to become disabled. Squawking 7500 results in armed fighter jets scrambled and SWAT teams meeting you on the runway. Squawking 7700 is the emergency code to use in case of a disabled pilot. Aviate, Navigate, Communicate concept is drilled into every student pilot.
HalcyonicStorm 14y ago
Flying Flame attack!
cmsmith 14y ago
The confusion between 'break' and 'brake' was especially unfortunate here. I was never sure whether an action was going to cause a wheel to fall off or to slow the plane down.
macleodan 14y ago
He forgot to deploy landing gear.
- emillon 14y ago
  On small planes, landing gear is not retractable.
  - mvgoogler 14y ago
    There are plenty of small planes with retractable gear. The reality is that it doesn't really matter. Landing gear-up is almost always survivable - for the people at least :-) Distracting someone with trying to find and operate the landing gear would probably be as likely to cause problems as it would be to help.
- ville 14y ago
  He was speaking about light aircraft. Such planes like probably more often have nonretractable landing gear?
stephengillie 14y ago
Where are the self-flying airplanes?
stcredzero 14y ago
Mythbusters: http://dsc.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythbusters/mythbusters-database/alone-remote-wilderness-go-mad.htm http://dsc.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythbusters/mythbusters-da... Plausible: An instructor could talk you down. However, as other have pointed out, the controllers would just have someone instruct you to turn on the autopilot. http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0J1RS8gDinQ/T1bYK4qr7QI/AAAAAAAAAQs/fGqPmMLZRH0/s1600/otto-the-auto-pilot.jpg http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0J1RS8gDinQ/T1bYK4qr7QI/AAAAAAAAAQ...
robomartin 14y ago
Yikes! Horrible article. I took some flying lessons a long time ago but decided I'd rather let someone else fly me where I want to go on a much larger plane. I have been designing, building, flying and crashing model airplanes and helicopters of all types since I was a kid. Slow, fast, gliders, jets, three-foot to ten-foot wingspan. I've even done the in-plane FPV camera thing --where you mount a camera in the plane, radio the video down to the ground and wear goggles that make you feel like you are inside the plane. Flight simulators have never felt real. Never. Even with zero wind. And, if you do have wind, and, in particular cross-wind, landings can be a handful if you don't know what you are doing. And, yes, these are toys --sometimes $10,000 toys, but toys nevertheless-- yet the laws of physics are pretty much the same (save some scale effects). I would never consider doing what this guy did. Kudos for having the stupidity to try it. I wouldn't. I've seen too many very nice model airplanes in the hands of experienced flyers get trashed on landing. Anyone can take off with a little instruction. Flying, turning, maintaining altitude, lining-up with the runway at the right place, time and speed and flying it in are entirely different matters. I also have a relative who flew 747's. He couldn't land a model airplane to save his life. I put him on FPV and he'd grease the thing in. Interesting.
- deleted 14y ago
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- eduardordm 14y ago
  I decided to delete my last comment because I don't fully understand your point. My stupidity for trying? I've been flying for 20 years! and have been flying models since a kid, my father is also a pilot and taught me to fly RC planes when I was young, at 11 I was flying his (real) cesnna 150 without intervention. No one could ever take off without some instructions, try to use your left foot to brake your car and see what happens.
  - robomartin 14y ago
    Are you the author of the original article? I think I screwed up my post. It actually refers to the guy who tried to fly and land the Cessna using his flight sim experience. That was dumb. As for your article, good attempt but what do you think are the chances that someone will remember all of that without conducting drills once or twice a week? In other words, what you do in flight school. I have enough trouble having people remember to manage energy and fly --as opposed to "drive"-- a model airplane around. That's why I start everyone with a pure glider (no motor). With such an approach they have no choice but to learn what flying is really about and manage energy at all stages. Flying is a beautiful and complex art.
antsam 14y ago
"Don't worry guys, I read about landing a plane once on the Internet."
jasonhanley 14y ago
"Landing: This must be the hardest part of flying to teach, because you can understand the concepts, theory, and techniques fully, and still make an absolute mess of a landing. So much depends on the "feel" of it, which varies significantly based on the plane you're in (even of the same type), the weather, and especially the wind." I wrote this while it was still very fresh in my mind, right after getting my PPL: http://blog.jasonhanley.com/2010/07/learning-to-fly-airplane.html http://blog.jasonhanley.com/2010/07/learning-to-fly-airplane...
lsh123 14y ago
The biggest thing in flying is not controlling the airplane but understanding that you are in charge and there is no anyone else who can help you. In the story mentioned above (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/34/other-other-topics/prop-bet-can-i-land-plane-first-try-1200028/index41.html#post35915547 http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/34/other-other-topics/prop...) the guy explains clearly that he was panicked to death 30 secs after takeoff. And only the presence of the instructor in the plane helped him to continue. A lot of time during the initial training is spent on teaching the student to make decision, take control over the flight and building confidence in student's ability to fly the plane. Flying the simulator is very different from flying real plane simply because in real life there is no "reload" button.
- taloft 14y ago
  Absolutely true. The odds of an untrained person safely landing on their first attempt are astronomical, but that doesn't mean you get to throw in the towel. If you are now the pilot, you better start acting like one in short order. First priority is getting the plane straight and level. Pick a distant object and head straight for it. You can't be afraid of the plane or doing something wrong. Of course if its on autopilot just leave it alone, but otherwise you have to take charge and straight and level is the first step. Then get on the radio and ask for help using plain English. But don't delude yourself thinking airplanes land themselves these days. It might make people feel better, but its not true. You are going to need help to have any chance.
dhughes 14y ago
When I took flying lessons the hard part for me wasn't the landing or take off it was straight and level flight. I would often find myself too high or in a shallow dive or a turn so my instructor would have to mention it to me. It's not instinctive you'd think you would feel it but you don't. He ended up having to draw a line on the windscreen with a marker where the horizon was. I used the instruments but mainly it was VFR (visual flight rules) only. My instructor was very hands on one day as we were heading for the runway he said "OK you take control and land." I think on my second lesson onward I took off each time. Once I was landing trying to beat a small commuter jet (coming from the other direction!) and he said "See that?" Not the jet but I didn't see anything else "That over there, 2 o'clock low." Nope didn't see anything. Then I saw it a big purple hot air balloon a mile or two away very low with evergreen trees behind it so dark it blended in. So there I was my first or second landing with a hot air balloon and a jet both in my way. The flare is the most important part but flaps and speed too of course but if there is anything to remember it's the flare at the last moment. Stare at the end of the runway aim for it as if you will crash there then at the last moment flare (pull back a bit) and you ride the bubble of air. I can't see how a flight simulator would have helped at all other than the basics of instruments and the radio, nothing is like the feel of real flight.
hakaaaaak 14y ago
Quick, someone write a site that indexes all of the most enduringly informative posts to HN, and include this pls.
bsagert 14y ago
There seems to be a few pilots on this thread but no one has yet mentioned trim tabs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trim_tabs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trim_tabs). The landing speed of a small plane is slower than cruising speed and the trim tab has to be adjusted or keeping the nose up will take take more strength than realized. That alone would cause further panic to an inexperienced person.

386 points by epochwolf 14y ago

relic 14y ago

I use my spare time at work on full-flight military aircraft simulators to fly around and try things like taking off, landing, etc...it was loads of fun, and once you were competent at landing a functional aircraft, you could try doing it with any combination of aircraft faults. I'm fairly confident I could land a [fully functional] C-130 if my life depended on it. My new challenge is trying to hook up with a tanker, during which I've caused many a catastrophic accident.

eduardordm 14y ago
This is how you would crash: you would hit the main gear so hard that the rear would bounce back creating a negative angle of attack, making you do it again until you break the airplane: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ez64Ba98Fto http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ez64Ba98Fto Now, if someone instructs you to ignore what you see and hear a GPWS I'm 100% sure you would be just fine. The first time I landed a larger airplane I hit the ground so hard it I ended up going to the hospital because of a herniated disc (had it before the event) at that time I had 950 hours of flight.
- Zak 14y ago
  Do modern large aircraft simulators fail to properly account for what happens when you land too hard on the main gear? That seems like exactly the kind of mistake they'd want to simulate accurately.
  - eduardordm 14y ago
    They do, thing is the field of view is not accurate and not 3D, some simulators have a basic 3D rendering (they change the image at frame rate that it 'feels' 3D). So you need to rely on instruments to create a mind image of how high you are. That actually happens not only in simulators: when you are used to land on wide runways, the next time you go land on a narrow one you would flare too low (and approach too low), specially at night. If interested, read this: http://www.avweb.com/news/airman/182402-1.html http://www.avweb.com/news/airman/182402-1.html
    - Evbn 14y ago
      Hmm, I would hope for markers at fixed distances, regardless of the runway size.

epochwolf 14y ago

I was surprised that turning the plane is much harder than landing it.

artmageddon 14y ago
I can't see how that's the case. The author indicates that it takes students a good amount of times to do turns correctly, which means: not losing (much, if any) altitude, not overshooting / undershooting the desired compass heading, using the correct angle of bank that's both comfortable and not risking stall, all while keeping a look outside for other airplanes(assuming you're not relying on instruments). Landing incorporating all of that to set up and execute the pattern, as well as keeping the airplane at a certain airspeed(too fast and you'll land too far down the runway, too slow and you'll stall & crash) and staying aligned with the runway to make sure you actually land on it. FYI, I'm a private pilot with nearly 200 hours.
- chmars 14y ago
  I agree: In my own flying experience, landings have remained the most challenging part of each flight – turns are easy in compassion.
iliis 14y ago
Just getting it to turn is easy. Getting it right is hard for a few reasons: First, instead of the first derivation of direction like a steering wheel in a car the stick/yoke of a plane actually controls the second derivation of the heading, meaning that pushing it a bit to the right not only causes a turn to the right but it will turn right faster and faster. So you steer by pushing/turn the yoke a bit to the right/left and wait until you reached your desired turning rate. Then you move it back into neutral position and wait until you (almost) completed the curve. Then you do push it to the opposite side until your plane is level again. Second, there's not only the rotation along the vertical axis (Yaw) to consider: You also have Pitch (nose up/down) and Roll (rotation along longitudinal axis). What you actually did by pushing the stick to side was rolling the plane which in turn causes it to make a turn because the lifting force of the wings doesn't point straight up anymore but a bit to the inner side of the rotation. So you loose a bit of vertical lift which you have to compensate for because gravity is still the same. To generate more lift you either have to change your angle of attack or your speed. The second can be done by giving a bit more throttle but chanigng the angle of attack is trickier: Your plane hangs 'sideways' in the air so you need both the yoke and the pedals to get it right. Third, because the plane makes a turn the outer wing is a bit faster because it has the longer path (sadly, there aren't any differentials for wings) and because it is faster it generates more lift. Yet another force to account for. And the forth thing that comes to my mind (which applies more for gliders than for motor planes): To fly efficiently (and for other obvious reasons) you don't want to fly in another direction that your noise points at. Eg. you want the plane's longitudinal-axis be tangential to the turning curve. In a car this would be equivalent to skidding and is rather easy to avoid but air offers a lot less friction. Think of driving around in a hoovercraft... Now a landing is trivial: as long as the debris is scattered in the direction of the runway it's considered ok.

neya 14y ago

[Personal rant] - I'd much rather get a parachute and jump the heck out. Probability of my survival would be much higher, then, I guess :D

jevinskie 14y ago
The problem is getting your parachute past TSA. I doubt they would buy the "just in case" reasoning. =)
- davidw 14y ago
  The article seemed more about small airplanes. Big ones have a series of people who would probably be in line to try and fly them before "random passengers with no experience". I don't know anything about planes, but "look for a parachute after you've stabilized the plane" doesn't sound like the worst possible idea, depending on the status of the pilot and other passengers.
- aplusbi 14y ago
  Plenty of skydivers and base jumpers travel (with gear) to go jumping. The TSA might look at you funny* but there is certainly nothing illegal about carrying on a chute. * Of course everything is always at the discretion of the TSA agent, they can prevent you from getting on a plane because they don't like the shirt you are wearing.
neurotech1 14y ago
That would have a 99.99% chance of killing the pilot, unless they happen to be flying a T-6 Texan (turboprop USAF trainer) or something, in which case the Martin-Baker ejection seat would help. It would be very difficult to put an unconscious pilot hooked into a tandem parachute.
- eddieroger 14y ago
  I didn't get the impression that neya is too concerned about the pilot's safety, or anyone else on the flight for that matter. Seems like a solo jump to me.

mcargian 14y ago

There was a bet on another forum. Could someone with only flight simulator experience take off, fly the pattern and land a single engine plane on their first try. I won't spoil it for you, read the thread here: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/34/other-other-topics/prop-bet-can-i-land-plane-first-try-1200028/ http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/34/other-other-topics/prop...

djloche 14y ago
here's the "trip report" for that one: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/34/other-other-topics/prop-bet-can-i-land-plane-first-try-1200028/index41.html#post35915547 http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/34/other-other-topics/prop...
- epochwolf 14y ago
  Thank you, I was skimming through a lot of posts to find that.
- revelation 14y ago
  And here is the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJT_CACIZqs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJT_CACIZqs The trip report will spoil the outcome, so the video is somewhat more nerve-wrecking.
  - danabramov 14y ago
    I was thinking something more in line with this Fry & Laurie sketch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klZ2suVUL7Q http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klZ2suVUL7Q
- cataflam 14y ago
  Also the trip report from the pilot : http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=36010398&postcount=722 http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=36010398&#3... (the parent is the trip report from the flight instructor) Very interesting to see his change of perspective and thought process during the flight, especially : My confidence level was extremely high prior to the flight, as in I really thought I was a pick 'em to do this, as in even money. 5 to 1, 20 to 1, 100 to 1?? No effing way; I was sure I had a really good chance at success. (...) There is really no other way to describe what happened next: I panicked. I did quickly bank the plane right to get it back over the runway, and this was pure habit from the simulator, which mimicked this part of the flight perfectly. But in the immediate seconds after take off, the first thing I thought was, I can't do this. (...) But the nose kept generally pointed forward, and the plane kept its general climb attitude, and I settled down. That is, I settled down from a state of total terror, to just general major concern.

Volpe 14y ago

I feel like this is equivalent to: "how to fix a bug when you don't know how to program"... I could write as much as you like but there is an explanatory gap...

artmageddon 14y ago
I can see the connection, but there are "emergency landing" courses that people can take at nearby airports that specifically teach non-pilots how to land an airplane safely if they are ever flying and an emergency happens to the pilot.
whatshisface 14y ago
If your life depended on the bug being fixed, articles like that would be justified... (even if they can only help .01% that's still worth it.)
rquantz 14y ago
It's more like "How to recover and redeploy WebApp X after total server/data loss when you are not a programmer or sysadmin." There are a defined set of things that need to be done or could go wrong.

deleted 14y ago

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GiraffeNecktie 14y ago

Over the years there have been a few joyriders with little or no flight experience who have stolen planes. Some landed ok some not so ok. http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1870&dat=19801116&id=ZPowAAAAIBAJ&sjid=O-AFAAAAIBAJ&pg=5609,963782 http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1870&dat=19801116&...

dredmorbius 14y ago
Just reading that makes me realize how much time has passed. Can you imagine the criminal prosecution of those kids if they were to do that today? No "three years of juvie max, likely community service". Particularly in Texas.

dendory 14y ago

People who enjoy this type of article may like a presentation I made a while back at http://dendory.net/ALS http://dendory.net/ALS Note that this isn't meant to allow you to land a plane, and honestly I doubt many people should try their hands at it by just reading this one article either. I think in most cases it would be better just to have the ATC help you in how to set the autopilot to land the plane for you, when that's an option.

chmars 14y ago
ATC staff is not trained for that. If an ATC can help you with that, it's pure coincidence due to piloting training outside her or his ATC job.
- dendory 14y ago
  ATC should be trained to get you the help you need if you're a passenger piloting a plane with a disabled pilot. They can get a pilot to come up in the tower, or get one on the phone.
  - lutorm 14y ago
    There are probably many pilots on the frequency that would be happy to help. Also, it would probably be helpful to have a "wingman" who can tell you things like whether you are too high or low, fast or slow, directly.
  - chmars 14y ago
    They would certainly try but it's not part of their standard training. The reason is simply that events where both (or even more pilots depending on the aircraft model) are incapacitated are extremely rare. In addition, air traffic control is not responsible for flying the aircraft, that remains the pilots' task for the time being.
- chmars 14y ago
  It's interesting that my comment gets downvoted for stating a simple fact about training and knowledge in air traffic control (ATC). In 2008, there was even a fatal accident in Zürich, Switzerland where the inadequate training of air traffic controllers with regard to piloting an aircraft contributed to the accident (although it was not the cause of the accident): 'The following factors created conditions for the accident or favoured its occurrence: […] * An inadequate understanding within air traffic control of the significance of faults and emergencies on single-engine light aircraft flown by a single pilot in challenging weather conditions.' http://www.bfu.admin.ch/common/pdf/2146_e.pdf http://www.bfu.admin.ch/common/pdf/2146_e.pdf Swiss air traffic controllers do 25 hours of flight training in small aircraft, so they have a basic idea of piloting an aircraft. In case of a declared or suspected emergency, they will give full priority to the aircraft in need and will try everything to get the necessary support. However, depending on the type of aircraft, it might not be possible to find a pilot or another expert within the necessary time frame to do a safe talk down – and even with a talk down, a safe outcome would never be guaranteed.

neurotech1 14y ago

One minor detail, if a single-pilot is dead, disabled or incapacitated, it wouldn't be a urgency, with a "PAN PAN" call, it would be an emergency, and the call would be "MAYDAY". I know a few pilots who fly medical transfer flights, and sometimes they have critical medical emergencies in the cabin, and can results in the pilot-in-command (captain) declaring a medical emergency, although they may not actually use the word MAYDAY when declaring medical emergency. Anything that requires EMT trauma response on the runway (eg. life threatening medical situation), Its probably justified in declaring an emergency. A minor scrapes or bruises from turbulence doesn't.

scrumper 14y ago
> it would be an emergency, and the call would be "MAYDAY". Came here to say this. An untrained person in control of an aircraft most definitely justifies declaring an emergency. I didn't really like the article. Honestly, if you're in a light aircraft and the pilot conks out you're going to get badly hurt if you survive at all. Landing a plane feels very weird for a very long time. In a big jet you'd have a far better chance: your controller can talk you through setting the autopilot to take you to a big airport, and then have you set autoland. (Of course, that scenario is pure movie fantasy, whereas the first is actually quite likely!) If anyone is interested in this sort of preparation, I'd recommend taking a $50 intro flying lesson or - better - signing up for the AOPA's "Pinch Hitter" course, which is designed to teach non-flying spouses of pilots how to do just this. It's saved a surprising (alarming) number of lives - a lot of private pilots are fat old men who get heart attacks.
- FireBeyond 14y ago
  "I didn't really like the article. Honestly, if you're in a light aircraft and the pilot conks out you're going to get badly hurt if you survive at all. Landing a plane feels very weird for a very long time. In a big jet you'd have a far better chance: your controller can talk you through setting the autopilot to take you to a big airport, and then have you set autoland. (Of course, that scenario is pure movie fantasy, whereas the first is actually quite likely!)" That, and a commercial jet is going to have a co-pilot in the cabin, and possibly at least one person more familiar with a cockpit than you flying in a jumpseat. If it's an international flight, then there's usually going to be another flight crew on board, too.

HeyLaughingBoy 14y ago

I would really love to know if anyone without training besides reading instructions has ever successfully recovered from a spin (or any unusual attitude) in a real airplane! The first time I spun an airplane it was by accident (OK, all of them were!): my instructor let it happen so I could learn and for the first few seconds it was like "what the fuck did I just do and how do I get out of it?" Even though I "logically" knew we were in a spin, the disorientation of G-forces, the screaming from the stall warning, and rapidly rising engine RPM made my lizard brain very slow to react. Never been happier to hear "I've got the airplane" coming from the right seat :-) OTOH, after that first time, "unusual attitude" training became fun. Amazing what a tiny bit of experience does to the brain.

saraid216 14y ago
Not having any pilot training whatsoever, I gotta ask: "attitude" or "altitude"? I could believe the former, but I want to check.
- dbaupp 14y ago
  I'm not a pilot either, but I'm fairly sure it is the former. I believe "attitude" refers to the angle of the plan with respect to horizontal (so pointing up or down very steeply is an "unusual attitude").
- rquantz 14y ago
  Attitude -- that would be, the alignment of the plane to the ground.
- HeyLaughingBoy 14y ago
  Attitude. An "unusual attitude" refers to the aircraft being in a configuration that is not normal in controlled flight (e.g., flying inverted). I think that's close to the FAA definition.
sootzoo 14y ago
Spin awareness is definitely weird at first, and I wholeheartedly agree that it's less scary after a bit of experience. Question: did you cover spin recovery? I was under the impression this was basically never done until CFI or CFII.

gnu8 14y ago

To turn the plane 180 degrees, wouldn't it be easier to use the compass than try to find a reference point on the ground?

jcoby 14y ago
It depends on the turn. With training you can do gentle turns (std rate, 15° bank) with the artificial horizon, turn coordinator, and watching the compass. When doing standard rate turns I watch the nose on the horizon, the turn coordinator, the compass, and the vertical airspeed indicator. Once you get into 45° and 60° banks the forces are disorienting and it's far easier to look out the window at the ground and the real horizon. Training or not, it's far easier to look out the window to make turns. You can see if the horizon is starting to move. If you sit there and watch the compass you can easily enter a stall or a dive without realizing it. Especially since your turns are not going to be coordinated (you won't be using the rudder effectively so the forces on your head will not be what you're used to).
serge2k 14y ago
Compass lags, trying to keep a heading via the heading indicator is trickery than it sounds. Ground references are the way to go.
- iliis 14y ago
  It can even do the opposite and precede your actual orientiation.
ianstallings 14y ago
I won't get into how inaccurate a compass can be in a plane because I understand your meaning - we can turn a plane accurately using instruments. But keep in mind that the first step is to learn how to fly visually using ground references.
eduardordm 14y ago
Not really, because by looking outside you would also control the angle and atitude instinctively, you could do it using the compass too, but if you are flying visual you better be looking outside.

ohazi 14y ago

What the hell kind of airplane are you flying where you add power to recover from a stall? Unless you're flying something with a very high thrust to weight ratio, you should nose down to break the stall, then add power afterwards.

yan 14y ago
Adding power is one of the first things you learn when covering stalls during the private pilot license progression.
- jcoby 14y ago
  Pitch, power, airspeed, attitude. Nosing down is the first move.
- scrumper 14y ago
  In a regular single piston engine aircraft it's nose down, then add power. You always fix angle of attack first. Same applies to a power-on (eg takeoff) stall: nose down.
  - yan 14y ago
    Concur, nose down first. It's not that no one mentions adding power (which is what OP implied). Recovery was always pitch down to regain airspeed while reaching with the other hand to begin adding throttle, but power is still "one of the first things."
artmageddon 14y ago
The author has it wrong, and I hope he corrects it. If you hear a buzzing noise, that means the airplane is going to stall if it loses more speed, but there's a chance that the speed is too low given how high the nose might be. Adding too much power at that moment, depending on the exact level of the nose, will cause the plane to lurch upward, which would definitely increase the chances of a stall. The right step would be to lower the nose to get more lift over the wings, and slowly add additional power as more airspeed is gained.

arthulia 14y ago

Hopefully this is a fixed-gear aircraft...

noonespecial 14y ago

During my first flight, my instructor let me try what I could. I was well on my way to crashing short of the runway when he informed me that I was done. Mark one datapoint for "would have died".

maaku 14y ago

Why isn't this posted in cockpits?

jamesaguilar 14y ago

I have a friend who is a small-plane pilot -- think Cessenas, things like that. I asked her, "Would you be able to land a 747 if the pilot died and the copilot was incapacitated or something crazy happened?" She said, "I think so. Get on the radio and ask tower where the autopilot switch is. They can land themselves." Of course this was not in the spirit of the question but I thought it was an entertaining answer.

raquo 14y ago
Assuming you somehow learned that they actually died... and you didn't die for the same reason... and you could open the cabin door...
- ShawnBird 14y ago
  And that whatever killed them did not damage the radio and/or auto pilot.
hcarvalhoalves 14y ago
ILS is amazing, it can really land by itself depending on the condition.
- iliis 14y ago
  Indeed. It also has an interesting and hilarous history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Beams https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Beams "The Battle of the Beams was a period early in the Second World War when bombers of the German Air Force (Luftwaffe) used a number of increasingly accurate systems of radio navigation, developed by Johannes Plendl, for night bombing in England. British "scientific intelligence" at the Air Ministry fought back with a variety of their own increasingly effective means, involving jamming and distortion of the radio waves." "Thus the beam was "bent" away from the target. Eventually, the beams could be bent by a controlled amount which enabled the British to fool the Germans into dropping their bombs where they wanted them. A side effect was that as the German crews had been trained to navigate solely by the beams, many crews failed to find either the true equi-signal or Germany again. Some bombers even landed at RAF bases, believing they were back in Germany."

deleted 14y ago

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packetslave 14y ago
what's a "pilot lol"?
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]

cynest 14y ago

A few years ago at AOPA I attended a seminar on this. Turns out the success rate is extremely high provided you are able to get in contact with someone on the ground.

scrumper 14y ago
I think this article would have been a lot better if the full word count had been devoted to operating the radio. I don't think the author even mentioned 121.5 (let alone the transponder.) A few pictures of the control yoke PTT button and some common radio panels would help.
- dsl 14y ago
  Absolutey. Here is a far better version of how to land a plane if you are not a pilot: STEP 0: Don't touch anything. STEP 1: Find the transponder. It looks like one of these: http://www.free-online-private-pilot-ground-school.com/images/transponder.jpg http://www.free-online-private-pilot-ground-school.com/image... or http://www.funkwerk-usa.com/funkwerk/trt800h/trt800h-lg.jpg http://www.funkwerk-usa.com/funkwerk/trt800h/trt800h-lg.jpg STEP 2: Set it to 7700 (emergency) or 7500 (hijacking) STEP 3: Put on the pilots headset and wait, someone will start talking to you and explain how to respond. STEP 4: If you don't hear anything for an extended period of time try to figure out why the radio doesn't work. Then start to panic and put into practice crazy things you read on the internet.
  - neurotech1 14y ago
    How about these points in order: AVIATE: Keep the plane straight & Level. NAVIGATE: Don't hit anything, turn to avoid any mountains etc, otherwise stay straight & level until ATC/Other pilot assistance directs you to the runway. COMMUNICATE: Broadcasting MAYDAY on any common channel is a good first step. CTAF (Common Traffic Aerial Frequency) used by light VFR aircraft. ATC/Tower is also monitored. Most likely the current channel is good to start with. DO NOT Squawk 7500 on the transponder unless a hostile action (hijacker etc.) caused the pilot to become disabled. Squawking 7500 results in armed fighter jets scrambled and SWAT teams meeting you on the runway. Squawking 7700 is the emergency code to use in case of a disabled pilot. Aviate, Navigate, Communicate concept is drilled into every student pilot.

HalcyonicStorm 14y ago

Flying Flame attack!

cmsmith 14y ago

The confusion between 'break' and 'brake' was especially unfortunate here. I was never sure whether an action was going to cause a wheel to fall off or to slow the plane down.

macleodan 14y ago

He forgot to deploy landing gear.

emillon 14y ago
On small planes, landing gear is not retractable.
- mvgoogler 14y ago
  There are plenty of small planes with retractable gear. The reality is that it doesn't really matter. Landing gear-up is almost always survivable - for the people at least :-) Distracting someone with trying to find and operate the landing gear would probably be as likely to cause problems as it would be to help.
ville 14y ago
He was speaking about light aircraft. Such planes like probably more often have nonretractable landing gear?

stephengillie 14y ago

Where are the self-flying airplanes?

stcredzero 14y ago

Mythbusters: http://dsc.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythbusters/mythbusters-database/alone-remote-wilderness-go-mad.htm http://dsc.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythbusters/mythbusters-da... Plausible: An instructor could talk you down. However, as other have pointed out, the controllers would just have someone instruct you to turn on the autopilot. http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0J1RS8gDinQ/T1bYK4qr7QI/AAAAAAAAAQs/fGqPmMLZRH0/s1600/otto-the-auto-pilot.jpg http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0J1RS8gDinQ/T1bYK4qr7QI/AAAAAAAAAQ...

robomartin 14y ago

Yikes! Horrible article. I took some flying lessons a long time ago but decided I'd rather let someone else fly me where I want to go on a much larger plane. I have been designing, building, flying and crashing model airplanes and helicopters of all types since I was a kid. Slow, fast, gliders, jets, three-foot to ten-foot wingspan. I've even done the in-plane FPV camera thing --where you mount a camera in the plane, radio the video down to the ground and wear goggles that make you feel like you are inside the plane. Flight simulators have never felt real. Never. Even with zero wind. And, if you do have wind, and, in particular cross-wind, landings can be a handful if you don't know what you are doing. And, yes, these are toys --sometimes $10,000 toys, but toys nevertheless-- yet the laws of physics are pretty much the same (save some scale effects). I would never consider doing what this guy did. Kudos for having the stupidity to try it. I wouldn't. I've seen too many very nice model airplanes in the hands of experienced flyers get trashed on landing. Anyone can take off with a little instruction. Flying, turning, maintaining altitude, lining-up with the runway at the right place, time and speed and flying it in are entirely different matters. I also have a relative who flew 747's. He couldn't land a model airplane to save his life. I put him on FPV and he'd grease the thing in. Interesting.

deleted 14y ago
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eduardordm 14y ago
I decided to delete my last comment because I don't fully understand your point. My stupidity for trying? I've been flying for 20 years! and have been flying models since a kid, my father is also a pilot and taught me to fly RC planes when I was young, at 11 I was flying his (real) cesnna 150 without intervention. No one could ever take off without some instructions, try to use your left foot to brake your car and see what happens.
- robomartin 14y ago
  Are you the author of the original article? I think I screwed up my post. It actually refers to the guy who tried to fly and land the Cessna using his flight sim experience. That was dumb. As for your article, good attempt but what do you think are the chances that someone will remember all of that without conducting drills once or twice a week? In other words, what you do in flight school. I have enough trouble having people remember to manage energy and fly --as opposed to "drive"-- a model airplane around. That's why I start everyone with a pure glider (no motor). With such an approach they have no choice but to learn what flying is really about and manage energy at all stages. Flying is a beautiful and complex art.

antsam 14y ago

"Don't worry guys, I read about landing a plane once on the Internet."

jasonhanley 14y ago

"Landing: This must be the hardest part of flying to teach, because you can understand the concepts, theory, and techniques fully, and still make an absolute mess of a landing. So much depends on the "feel" of it, which varies significantly based on the plane you're in (even of the same type), the weather, and especially the wind." I wrote this while it was still very fresh in my mind, right after getting my PPL: http://blog.jasonhanley.com/2010/07/learning-to-fly-airplane.html http://blog.jasonhanley.com/2010/07/learning-to-fly-airplane...

lsh123 14y ago

The biggest thing in flying is not controlling the airplane but understanding that you are in charge and there is no anyone else who can help you. In the story mentioned above (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/34/other-other-topics/prop-bet-can-i-land-plane-first-try-1200028/index41.html#post35915547 http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/34/other-other-topics/prop...) the guy explains clearly that he was panicked to death 30 secs after takeoff. And only the presence of the instructor in the plane helped him to continue. A lot of time during the initial training is spent on teaching the student to make decision, take control over the flight and building confidence in student's ability to fly the plane. Flying the simulator is very different from flying real plane simply because in real life there is no "reload" button.

taloft 14y ago
Absolutely true. The odds of an untrained person safely landing on their first attempt are astronomical, but that doesn't mean you get to throw in the towel. If you are now the pilot, you better start acting like one in short order. First priority is getting the plane straight and level. Pick a distant object and head straight for it. You can't be afraid of the plane or doing something wrong. Of course if its on autopilot just leave it alone, but otherwise you have to take charge and straight and level is the first step. Then get on the radio and ask for help using plain English. But don't delude yourself thinking airplanes land themselves these days. It might make people feel better, but its not true. You are going to need help to have any chance.

dhughes 14y ago

When I took flying lessons the hard part for me wasn't the landing or take off it was straight and level flight. I would often find myself too high or in a shallow dive or a turn so my instructor would have to mention it to me. It's not instinctive you'd think you would feel it but you don't. He ended up having to draw a line on the windscreen with a marker where the horizon was. I used the instruments but mainly it was VFR (visual flight rules) only. My instructor was very hands on one day as we were heading for the runway he said "OK you take control and land." I think on my second lesson onward I took off each time. Once I was landing trying to beat a small commuter jet (coming from the other direction!) and he said "See that?" Not the jet but I didn't see anything else "That over there, 2 o'clock low." Nope didn't see anything. Then I saw it a big purple hot air balloon a mile or two away very low with evergreen trees behind it so dark it blended in. So there I was my first or second landing with a hot air balloon and a jet both in my way. The flare is the most important part but flaps and speed too of course but if there is anything to remember it's the flare at the last moment. Stare at the end of the runway aim for it as if you will crash there then at the last moment flare (pull back a bit) and you ride the bubble of air. I can't see how a flight simulator would have helped at all other than the basics of instruments and the radio, nothing is like the feel of real flight.

hakaaaaak 14y ago

Quick, someone write a site that indexes all of the most enduringly informative posts to HN, and include this pls.

bsagert 14y ago

There seems to be a few pilots on this thread but no one has yet mentioned trim tabs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trim_tabs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trim_tabs). The landing speed of a small plane is slower than cruising speed and the trim tab has to be adjusted or keeping the nose up will take take more strength than realized. That alone would cause further panic to an inexperienced person.