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He didn't say the item doesn't apply, he said that it is a warning sign. Holding a contest doesn't make a product snake oil, but it certainly correlates to snak

He didn't say the item doesn't apply, he said that it is a warning sign. Holding a contest doesn't make a product snake oil, but it certainly correlates to snake oil products.

huhtenberg 14y ago
It's the snobbery, not the meaning. I've been partial to the crypto community since the early 90s and there appear to be three popular ways to dismiss one's security work without bothering to understand any details - 1. Quoting an item from the snakeoil markers list This is the most popular method. It has a good mass appeal as it clearly implies that your opponent is a complete idiot and puts him in a position of needing to prove the opposite. 2. Gutmann Sound Wave Therapy quote Whenever someone thinks that they can replace SSL/SSH with something much better that they designed this morning over coffee, their computer speakers should generate some sort of penis-shaped sound wave and plunge it repeatedly into their skulls until they achieve enlightenment. This is as great, arrogant, includes a "penis" and generally makes first-time impression. It can't be used too often unfortunately. 3. Invoking Kerckhoffs's principle and alike This is a sophisticated way. Don't really need to understand what the term is or if it applies in a given case. The idea is to just dazzle the opponent with obscure terminology to show they don't know a shit about cryptography. You've gotta try and be on a receiving end of these. An incredibly welcoming opening of a dialog between the peers. Thickens your skin like nothing else.
- tptacek 14y ago
  I'm interested in some cryptosystems that have been on the receiving end of any of these critiques that were ultimately shown to be sound and useful. I'm not asking because I think I know the answer. I don't. I don't follow crypto the way you follow crypto; I am interested in it exclusively to the extent that it allows me to break software. You seem to follow the community as a whole, which is not an interest I share. So you probably have some insight into it that I lack.

He didn't say the item doesn't apply, he said that it is a warning sign. Holding a contest doesn't make a product snake oil, but it certainly correlates to snake oil products.

huhtenberg 14y ago

It's the snobbery, not the meaning. I've been partial to the crypto community since the early 90s and there appear to be three popular ways to dismiss one's security work without bothering to understand any details - 1. Quoting an item from the snakeoil markers list This is the most popular method. It has a good mass appeal as it clearly implies that your opponent is a complete idiot and puts him in a position of needing to prove the opposite. 2. Gutmann Sound Wave Therapy quote Whenever someone thinks that they can replace SSL/SSH with something much better that they designed this morning over coffee, their computer speakers should generate some sort of penis-shaped sound wave and plunge it repeatedly into their skulls until they achieve enlightenment. This is as great, arrogant, includes a "penis" and generally makes first-time impression. It can't be used too often unfortunately. 3. Invoking Kerckhoffs's principle and alike This is a sophisticated way. Don't really need to understand what the term is or if it applies in a given case. The idea is to just dazzle the opponent with obscure terminology to show they don't know a shit about cryptography. You've gotta try and be on a receiving end of these. An incredibly welcoming opening of a dialog between the peers. Thickens your skin like nothing else.

tptacek 14y ago
I'm interested in some cryptosystems that have been on the receiving end of any of these critiques that were ultimately shown to be sound and useful. I'm not asking because I think I know the answer. I don't. I don't follow crypto the way you follow crypto; I am interested in it exclusively to the extent that it allows me to break software. You seem to follow the community as a whole, which is not an interest I share. So you probably have some insight into it that I lack.