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Mh... "those who hate Perl hate it because it’s “too hard to maintain” and too “strange.”"... No.. i hate perl because it's too easy to write really, really bad

by buster 14y ago

Mh... "those who hate Perl hate it because it’s “too hard to maintain” and too “strange.”"... No.. i hate perl because it's too easy to write really, really bad code and non-obvious how to write good code.

mutation 14y ago
There's one obvious way to write good Perl code: read the documentation. Perl has tonnes of it. There are bugs in there of course, but most of it is very good. Also try to visit perlmonks.org once in a while - they're good there. Everything else is just a reason to be lazy and not care about the code you write.
- smonff 14y ago
  There's another obvious way to write good Perl thanks to the CPAN: don't write it because others already made the work better than you. @mutation: i agree with doc quality.
- aduitsis 14y ago
  And, Perl has an awesome community, let's not forget that. They do love clean code and all (modern Perl is very easy to read and understand IMHO), but are aware that in the end you want to get the job done. Time and again, the question "are there any useful ideas or features in language X that we can borrow and implement in Perl?" has been posed by prominent people in the Perl community. Which is the opposite of the "not invented here" syndrome.
- buster 14y ago
  Well, the documentation system on CPAN is ancient and awful to use. I have often enough found missing documentation. Particularly perl programmers seem to give a f*ck about documenting return values. And even when there is a good documented function, often enough i am not smarter after reading. Just picking a random method of a random module here: http://search.cpan.org/~grichter/HTTP-Webdav-0.1.18-0.17.1/Webdav.pod#$session_->_cookie_register_(cache) http://search.cpan.org/~grichter/HTTP-Webdav-0.1.18-0.17.1/W... What's the return value? Is there really no result? And what is cache? I can't even click that variable and see it's structure. As a reminder, i just picked some random module. It's 2013 and not 1980. I'd like to know that kind of stuff quickly when i check for arguments and how to call stuff. I like that stuff in my editor/ide as well. Clickable. Call me lazy, but i do want to work efficiently and not trying to google all day for a simple usage example. I like to get the work done. You're partially right about perlmonks. It's a great resource for perl! Sometimes it seems like it's the last stronghold of the perl community but it has great answers. What is not so great is that i find multiple solution (like more then 10) for a very simple problem, but that's subjective..
webreac 14y ago
I love Perl because it is really easy to structure your code to match your way of thinking. And it is so fast to get the job done. I am a javascript beginner. For me, it is a lot more difficult to read than Perl. I very much agree with the article, but I think that javascript is more than a new Perl, it is also a new BASIC. Like BASIC 30 year ago, it is present on every computer, almost every developer will encounter the need to learn javascript and almost anything can be coded in javascript.
- smonff 14y ago
  Agree with the opinion that modern Perl5 is much more simplier to read than JS. Especially with stuff like jQuery.
peteretep 14y ago
Any time people hate on Perl but like Javascript, I get confused. Perl has some weaknesses vs Javascript (doesn't run in the browser, can't be parsed by anything other than perl so you don't get interesting new interpreters) but also some considerable strengths (uninsane OO, considerably better tooling, string handling, runs on every server by default). But the nice things about JS - the effortless ability to go all higher-order, the flexibility, the power, the /fun/ - and much of the bad parts - the difficulty with writing clear and maintainable code, no support for strong types; if you like Javascript, you will love Perl when you get to know it.

by buster 14y ago

mutation 14y ago

There's one obvious way to write good Perl code: read the documentation. Perl has tonnes of it. There are bugs in there of course, but most of it is very good. Also try to visit perlmonks.org once in a while - they're good there. Everything else is just a reason to be lazy and not care about the code you write.

smonff 14y ago
There's another obvious way to write good Perl thanks to the CPAN: don't write it because others already made the work better than you. @mutation: i agree with doc quality.
aduitsis 14y ago
And, Perl has an awesome community, let's not forget that. They do love clean code and all (modern Perl is very easy to read and understand IMHO), but are aware that in the end you want to get the job done. Time and again, the question "are there any useful ideas or features in language X that we can borrow and implement in Perl?" has been posed by prominent people in the Perl community. Which is the opposite of the "not invented here" syndrome.
buster 14y ago
Well, the documentation system on CPAN is ancient and awful to use. I have often enough found missing documentation. Particularly perl programmers seem to give a f*ck about documenting return values. And even when there is a good documented function, often enough i am not smarter after reading. Just picking a random method of a random module here: http://search.cpan.org/~grichter/HTTP-Webdav-0.1.18-0.17.1/Webdav.pod#$session_->_cookie_register_(cache) http://search.cpan.org/~grichter/HTTP-Webdav-0.1.18-0.17.1/W... What's the return value? Is there really no result? And what is cache? I can't even click that variable and see it's structure. As a reminder, i just picked some random module. It's 2013 and not 1980. I'd like to know that kind of stuff quickly when i check for arguments and how to call stuff. I like that stuff in my editor/ide as well. Clickable. Call me lazy, but i do want to work efficiently and not trying to google all day for a simple usage example. I like to get the work done. You're partially right about perlmonks. It's a great resource for perl! Sometimes it seems like it's the last stronghold of the perl community but it has great answers. What is not so great is that i find multiple solution (like more then 10) for a very simple problem, but that's subjective..

webreac 14y ago

I love Perl because it is really easy to structure your code to match your way of thinking. And it is so fast to get the job done. I am a javascript beginner. For me, it is a lot more difficult to read than Perl. I very much agree with the article, but I think that javascript is more than a new Perl, it is also a new BASIC. Like BASIC 30 year ago, it is present on every computer, almost every developer will encounter the need to learn javascript and almost anything can be coded in javascript.

smonff 14y ago
Agree with the opinion that modern Perl5 is much more simplier to read than JS. Especially with stuff like jQuery.

peteretep 14y ago

Any time people hate on Perl but like Javascript, I get confused. Perl has some weaknesses vs Javascript (doesn't run in the browser, can't be parsed by anything other than perl so you don't get interesting new interpreters) but also some considerable strengths (uninsane OO, considerably better tooling, string handling, runs on every server by default). But the nice things about JS - the effortless ability to go all higher-order, the flexibility, the power, the /fun/ - and much of the bad parts - the difficulty with writing clear and maintainable code, no support for strong types; if you like Javascript, you will love Perl when you get to know it.