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> In Python I run into a lot of programmer related bugs that Haskell's rigid type system prevents. Isn't your productivity gain coming from using a statically

by laureny 14y ago

> In Python I run into a lot of programmer related bugs that Haskell's rigid type system prevents. Isn't your productivity gain coming from using a statically typed language rather than Haskell specifically? It feels like any statically typed language is a leg up from Python :)

freyrs3 14y ago
> Isn't your productivity gain coming from using a statically typed language rather than Haskell specifically I think it's a bit more than that, Haskell has a much more sophisticated type system than quite a few of the popular statically typed langauges ( C, Java, C# ). Static typing is only the start, to be really useful we need modern type inference methods and a concise way of expressing generics. Both Scala and Haskell do this very well.
mightybyte 14y ago
Purity is a big factor too, and Haskell is the only pure language I know of that is mature enough for production use.
codewright 14y ago
Are we still spreading that canard where type errors are somehow some kind of bugbear in Python? It's not a profound part of writing code in Python for anybody that's spent more than a few weeks with it.
- mercurial 14y ago
  A profound part? Maybe not. However, I noticed yesterday that a provisioning tool I wrote was blowing because I was assigning by mistake an empty string coming from a CSV instead of a None value to an integer field in an sqlalchemy model. That's a bug a static type system would have found.
- donri 14y ago
  Almost every exception a Python program ever throws is or can be made a type error (or otherwise statically caught) in Haskell and similar languages. A type error is not the same thing as a TypeError.
- sbmassey 14y ago
  When someone dumps a large Python codebase on you, it is significantly harder to figure out how it works than with a statically typed program, since it is harder to figure out what types to use and are returned by any given function call.
merijnv 14y ago
It depends on what you mean by statically typed language. If you mean other stuff like SML/Ocaml, I agree. If you include C/C++/Java/C# in your definition "statically typed", then I beg to differ. I have considerable experience in C, Java and, to a lesser extent, C++. And all in all I consider their type systems worthless for error prevention, the flexibility of python gains you more than their type systems do. In this sense I suspect the OP would say the same about any ML-like static type system, but not many other static type systems.
cies 14y ago
in though statically typed meant C++ or Java, and probably it does.. i never felt compelled to the way they do typing, so i gravitated towards Ruby and Python. but to me Haskell is a different league.. Haskell-typing actually helps /me/, where i feel C++/Java-typing merely help the compiler.

by laureny 14y ago

freyrs3 14y ago

> Isn't your productivity gain coming from using a statically typed language rather than Haskell specifically I think it's a bit more than that, Haskell has a much more sophisticated type system than quite a few of the popular statically typed langauges ( C, Java, C# ). Static typing is only the start, to be really useful we need modern type inference methods and a concise way of expressing generics. Both Scala and Haskell do this very well.

mightybyte 14y ago

Purity is a big factor too, and Haskell is the only pure language I know of that is mature enough for production use.

codewright 14y ago

Are we still spreading that canard where type errors are somehow some kind of bugbear in Python? It's not a profound part of writing code in Python for anybody that's spent more than a few weeks with it.

mercurial 14y ago
A profound part? Maybe not. However, I noticed yesterday that a provisioning tool I wrote was blowing because I was assigning by mistake an empty string coming from a CSV instead of a None value to an integer field in an sqlalchemy model. That's a bug a static type system would have found.
donri 14y ago
Almost every exception a Python program ever throws is or can be made a type error (or otherwise statically caught) in Haskell and similar languages. A type error is not the same thing as a TypeError.
sbmassey 14y ago
When someone dumps a large Python codebase on you, it is significantly harder to figure out how it works than with a statically typed program, since it is harder to figure out what types to use and are returned by any given function call.

merijnv 14y ago

It depends on what you mean by statically typed language. If you mean other stuff like SML/Ocaml, I agree. If you include C/C++/Java/C# in your definition "statically typed", then I beg to differ. I have considerable experience in C, Java and, to a lesser extent, C++. And all in all I consider their type systems worthless for error prevention, the flexibility of python gains you more than their type systems do. In this sense I suspect the OP would say the same about any ML-like static type system, but not many other static type systems.

cies 14y ago

in though statically typed meant C++ or Java, and probably it does.. i never felt compelled to the way they do typing, so i gravitated towards Ruby and Python. but to me Haskell is a different league.. Haskell-typing actually helps /me/, where i feel C++/Java-typing merely help the compiler.