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Mozilla is still against it. Makes me kinda angry, actually. They killed MNG/JNG, because it added like 100kB to the installer and because we should just use Fl

by ahoge 14y ago

Mozilla is still against it. Makes me kinda angry, actually. They killed MNG/JNG, because it added like 100kB to the installer and because we should just use Flash instead (seriously). It's now a decade later and we still don't have a lossy RGBA format. If quantized PNG8s aren't good enough, you can only use gigantic PNG32 files, which are over 5 times larger than JNG or WebP files. I've seen websites which were over 5MB thanks to that limitation. It's ridiculous. I wish they had at least kept JNG. It's a fairly simple JPG/PNG mashup format. If you already use JPG and PNG libraries, supporting JNG won't add much weight.

monsterix 14y ago
Actually this is a non-issue. You could always implement comma separated image fallbacks[1]: background-image: image("wavy.svg", 'wavy.png' , "wavy.gif"); and so on... It seems that Google lowered emphasis on the project, or is still working on it behind-the-scenes. I'd much prefer to have 'less of images' moving over the web (without cutting back on visuals, you know) and save precious bandwidth. [1] http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-images/#image-fallbacks http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-images/#image-fallbacks And then the fact that Google Chrome has over 30% market share. Makes sense to promote WebP.
- ahoge 14y ago
  That only works for background images. Plus, the UA will send a request for the webp image even if it can't read the format. It needs the mime type to figure that out.
  - monsterix 14y ago
    Ah yes. Then probably paste image raw data in the second fallback image? Though I do agree with you that something which benefits the web should be adopted across the board.
pornel 14y ago
We do have lossy RGBA that works in all browsers since IE7 (and degrades well in IE4+): http://pngquant.org http://pngquant.org http://tinypng.org http://tinypng.org And while it's not as good as WebP, it's 20% of the filesize you get from Photoshop. http://pngmini.com/vs-webp/ http://pngmini.com/vs-webp/
- ahoge 14y ago
  256 colors (well, 256 RGBA tuples) aren't always enough. Just look at the kind of images used by those heavy parallax websites. Larger photo-based images will always look terrible, no matter which kind of dithering is used.
  - pornel 14y ago
    Parallax websites are actually easy, because images are divided into many sprites/layers, so there's many palettes to work with. I've got a pretty large collection of PNGs to test quantisation on and 68% of them end up converted in great quality, 89% are within acceptable range. It's about double of what you can get with Fireworks. And for images that can't absolutely fit in 256-colors there's a hack for lossy true-color PNGs that can reduce size by 20-40%: https://github.com/pornel/mediancut-posterizer https://github.com/pornel/mediancut-posterizer

by ahoge 14y ago

monsterix 14y ago

Actually this is a non-issue. You could always implement comma separated image fallbacks[1]: background-image: image("wavy.svg", 'wavy.png' , "wavy.gif"); and so on... It seems that Google lowered emphasis on the project, or is still working on it behind-the-scenes. I'd much prefer to have 'less of images' moving over the web (without cutting back on visuals, you know) and save precious bandwidth. [1] http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-images/#image-fallbacks http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-images/#image-fallbacks And then the fact that Google Chrome has over 30% market share. Makes sense to promote WebP.

ahoge 14y ago
That only works for background images. Plus, the UA will send a request for the webp image even if it can't read the format. It needs the mime type to figure that out.
- monsterix 14y ago
  Ah yes. Then probably paste image raw data in the second fallback image? Though I do agree with you that something which benefits the web should be adopted across the board.

pornel 14y ago

We do have lossy RGBA that works in all browsers since IE7 (and degrades well in IE4+): http://pngquant.org http://pngquant.org http://tinypng.org http://tinypng.org And while it's not as good as WebP, it's 20% of the filesize you get from Photoshop. http://pngmini.com/vs-webp/ http://pngmini.com/vs-webp/

ahoge 14y ago
256 colors (well, 256 RGBA tuples) aren't always enough. Just look at the kind of images used by those heavy parallax websites. Larger photo-based images will always look terrible, no matter which kind of dithering is used.
- pornel 14y ago
  Parallax websites are actually easy, because images are divided into many sprites/layers, so there's many palettes to work with. I've got a pretty large collection of PNGs to test quantisation on and 68% of them end up converted in great quality, 89% are within acceptable range. It's about double of what you can get with Fireworks. And for images that can't absolutely fit in 256-colors there's a hack for lossy true-color PNGs that can reduce size by 20-40%: https://github.com/pornel/mediancut-posterizer https://github.com/pornel/mediancut-posterizer