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Yes, we should. Thank you for bringing it up. The OP makes some good points about the risks and ridiculous time/energy expenditures of "startups," but he misses

Yes, we should. Thank you for bringing it up. The OP makes some good points about the risks and ridiculous time/energy expenditures of "startups," but he misses the most dangerous element. Grandiosity is a problem in the startup space. Grandiosity can be a sign of personality disorders… or, if you ask me, it can be a sign of hanging out with people who exhibit grandiosity, tell you it's what you have to have to achieve what you want, who laud you for having it, and who mysteriously aren't there to help you when you fall on your ass. In fact, who tear you up when you do. Yeah, it sounds like high school, doesn't it? Only the stakes are a lot higher. Every time I hear somebody say they are going to "change the world," I cringe. I imagine those people as some combination of arrogant fucks (pardon my english) and/or depression waiting to happen. Please, please be reasonable. If you want to change the world, start by volunteering at a soup kitchen. Don't expect your startup to "change the world." Don't think you have to, to achieve your dreams and help people, either. Don't talk yourself up. If you're insecure, let yourself be insecure, don't slap a layer of grandiosity and self-aggrandizement on top. Please, don't be somebody to other people who you aren't… the more you pretend to be confident to others, while being insecure inside, the less you feel like anyone KNOWS you, or cares about you, the more alone you feel, the more likely you are to really, desperately feel the pain of isolation. The best way to be happy is to be grateful for what you have, not to constantly anticipate becoming famous or rich or having an outsized impact on the world when you haven't even made a tiny, local impact first. Have perspective. Volunteer. Spend time with your friends, and your family if you like them. If your friends exhibit all of the above symptoms, make a few new friends who are totally disconnected to the whole "ecosystem" so you can simply be real with them. (Note: not saying you should drop your grandiose friends. But consider whether they're healthy for you.) Otherwise you risk being caught up in a spiral of obsession and disconnection, a constant raising of stakes ("Who's going to change the world more!? Who's more ridiculously confident?! Who can work longer and harder?!") which will, statistically speaking, never pay off.

pyre 14y ago
| Every time I hear somebody say they are going to | "change the world," I cringe. I imagine those | people as some combination of arrogant fucks | (pardon my english) and/or depression waiting | to happen. During a 'cultural fit' interview, I was asked, "How I Was Changing The World(tm)." They went on to talk about how they were changing the world because someone on the other side of the globe was using their app on a smart phone to manage their business. I just remember thinking that it was a pretty arrogant stance and question. (If the person on the other side of the world has a business and smart phone, they probably doing pretty well...)
- ahoyhere 14y ago
  Yeah. We live in a crazy time, when people think a convenience for a $400 device is "changing the world." You're right… it IS arrogant. And it's also sad, like a group of little kids talking about how important and badass they are, who they're gonna beat up and which famous actress/actor they're going to marry, right up til mom & dad call them home. Especially because they seem to be in denial that it's all fantasy. This year we (my husband & I) funded 3 full fistula surgeries for poor women in the developing world: http://www.fistulafoundation.org/whatyoucando/loveasister.html http://www.fistulafoundation.org/whatyoucando/loveasister.ht... For the low low cost of $1500, we gave three women back the ability to be productive, to be a part of their communities again, to be free from stigma… in short, not to be covered in their own excrement and urine all the time, for the lack of a simple surgery. Three women. Changed lives. And all it took was a little bit of our money and an organization that is actually changing the world. I had it easy… I just had to fork over the money. They're the ones on the ground making it happen. Doctors who do the surgeries in adverse conditions, coordinating to keep costs low, taking care of the women post-op, the women who walk so far to get taken care of and endure all the awful things they've endured… We just develop software. No big deal. I think people like to wrap themselves in illusions because they think it'll make them feel better… when really, deep down, they know they're lying to themselves, which only makes them feel worse. Screw grandiosity.
  - danso 14y ago
    Sorry, but I think the dismissive attitude behind "We just develop software. no big deal" is not at all helpful. Having seen how software interfaces can greatly enable - or hamper -- professionals in the educational, medical, and law fields, I don't see software as just being some rich trivial luxury that's e cherry on top of other professionals' hard honest work.
    - pyre 14y ago
      "We just develop software. no big deal" might just be extreme in the opposite direction, but there's a gap between "is really useful to people" and "changing the world" though that some people don't seem to see. Things that I would call "world changing": 1. Improving education (e.g. Kahn Academy) 2. Curing disease. 3. Reducing/eliminating poverty. etc. Creating a B2B app that is used globally is not what I would call "world changing." It's obviously really useful to people and has great reach, which is something to be excited about, but "We're Changing The World(tm)" is over-stating your case.
evolve2k 14y ago
Thanks for your post Amy, that does strike a cord. It's mentally hard running a startup, the more supportive we are of each other the better off everyone is.
- ahoyhere 14y ago
  While obviously nobody would say "we should be less supportive of people with depression," my point was that people need to stop bald-faced lying to themselves. And to remove themselves from situations where that is not only the norm, but celebrated behavior. Living a lie is a cause of depression.[1] You can't "support" a person who is lying to themselves. You call them out -- they hate you for it. You support them by "believing in them" -- you deepen their investment in their lie. Nobody wins. Why is it that people all agree "it's mentally hard running a startup"? Is it really so hard? Or is that another face of the grandiosity at work? [1] Obviously I'm not saying this is the cause of all depression or even all startup depression. But I've seen it at work too many times to believe it's insignificant. And in terms of clinical diagnoses, grandiosity is a sign of NPD, and NPD is highly correlated with depression. I don't think a diagnosis of NPD fits an entire culture where grandiosity is the norm, however, but I do believe it can cause depression and not without good reason.
einhverfr 14y ago
> Every time I hear somebody say they are going to "change the world," I cringe. I am now 36. I think every business has to seek to change the world for the better, but I also think that happens through the little things, not the grandiose. The problems of the future will not be solved by grand technological or government solutions but by the radical actions of neighbors helping neighbors....
nhangen 14y ago
Gosh Amy, I don't know what to say about this. I'm a fan, we've met before. In fact, I remember eating pizza together in Miami during Superconf I think...but I can't agree with you here. I guess I'm one that you could say has delusions of grandeur, and I think it's the greatest gift I've ever been given. You'll never hear me say I want to change the world, but I do want to change my world, and I, like many, have lofty ambitions and am not ashamed of that fact. I also don't think it's fair to conflate ambition with false confidence. In fact, I'd argue that increased confidence leads to increased ambition. What's really wrong with a constant raising of stakes if that's what you're into?
- joedev 14y ago
  The correlations between grandiosity and depression (among other disorders) are broadly discussed in scientific literature but are not well known in popular culture. The lack of public knowledge about the mental-health dangers of grandiosity is not surprising, considering that most of the people who pull the levers of pop-culture suffer from grandiosity themselves.
  - nhangen 14y ago
    Were you to say ambition instead, I would agree. Grandiosity is a term used by people that are afraid of the risks associated with achievement.
xyandnoz 14y ago
I mostly agree with Amy's take. And since when did "changing" imply "for the better"? It seems far too many people in our tech world have confused "affecting" with "improving". Yet when I glance around at what we have created -- me absolutely included -- for every world-changing improvement, I see far more products, services, apps with a model that puts the start-up's interests (or their investors, etc.) in direct conflict with "the World's" interests. Yeah, I am no longer in the "changing the world" camp, unless "change" means a NET improvement. The current example that strikes me the most is the gamification platform vendors that feature success stories including weight loss and health compliance, alongside success case-studies of the same platform used to increase sales of high-fructose corn syrup drinks and beer. And they celebrate the fact that they are not just helping company A take market share from company B, but that through software/data-enabled behavior manipulation techniques, they increased the "units" a given customer would buy. Huge win for companies. World-changing?
- ahoyhere 14y ago
  Excellent point. The word "change" is totally amoral! Also, it doesn't really express degree, either. Either everything changes the world, or nothing does.
hp 14y ago
Steve Jobs made the point nicely: "This stuff doesn’t change the world. It really doesn’t … Technologies can make it easier, can let us touch people we might not otherwise. But it’s a disservice to constantly put things in a radical new light that it’s going to change everything. Things don’t have to change the world to be important."

pyre 14y ago

| Every time I hear somebody say they are going to | "change the world," I cringe. I imagine those | people as some combination of arrogant fucks | (pardon my english) and/or depression waiting | to happen. During a 'cultural fit' interview, I was asked, "How I Was Changing The World(tm)." They went on to talk about how they were changing the world because someone on the other side of the globe was using their app on a smart phone to manage their business. I just remember thinking that it was a pretty arrogant stance and question. (If the person on the other side of the world has a business and smart phone, they probably doing pretty well...)

ahoyhere 14y ago
Yeah. We live in a crazy time, when people think a convenience for a $400 device is "changing the world." You're right… it IS arrogant. And it's also sad, like a group of little kids talking about how important and badass they are, who they're gonna beat up and which famous actress/actor they're going to marry, right up til mom & dad call them home. Especially because they seem to be in denial that it's all fantasy. This year we (my husband & I) funded 3 full fistula surgeries for poor women in the developing world: http://www.fistulafoundation.org/whatyoucando/loveasister.html http://www.fistulafoundation.org/whatyoucando/loveasister.ht... For the low low cost of $1500, we gave three women back the ability to be productive, to be a part of their communities again, to be free from stigma… in short, not to be covered in their own excrement and urine all the time, for the lack of a simple surgery. Three women. Changed lives. And all it took was a little bit of our money and an organization that is actually changing the world. I had it easy… I just had to fork over the money. They're the ones on the ground making it happen. Doctors who do the surgeries in adverse conditions, coordinating to keep costs low, taking care of the women post-op, the women who walk so far to get taken care of and endure all the awful things they've endured… We just develop software. No big deal. I think people like to wrap themselves in illusions because they think it'll make them feel better… when really, deep down, they know they're lying to themselves, which only makes them feel worse. Screw grandiosity.
- danso 14y ago
  Sorry, but I think the dismissive attitude behind "We just develop software. no big deal" is not at all helpful. Having seen how software interfaces can greatly enable - or hamper -- professionals in the educational, medical, and law fields, I don't see software as just being some rich trivial luxury that's e cherry on top of other professionals' hard honest work.
  - pyre 14y ago
    "We just develop software. no big deal" might just be extreme in the opposite direction, but there's a gap between "is really useful to people" and "changing the world" though that some people don't seem to see. Things that I would call "world changing": 1. Improving education (e.g. Kahn Academy) 2. Curing disease. 3. Reducing/eliminating poverty. etc. Creating a B2B app that is used globally is not what I would call "world changing." It's obviously really useful to people and has great reach, which is something to be excited about, but "We're Changing The World(tm)" is over-stating your case.

evolve2k 14y ago

Thanks for your post Amy, that does strike a cord. It's mentally hard running a startup, the more supportive we are of each other the better off everyone is.

ahoyhere 14y ago
While obviously nobody would say "we should be less supportive of people with depression," my point was that people need to stop bald-faced lying to themselves. And to remove themselves from situations where that is not only the norm, but celebrated behavior. Living a lie is a cause of depression.[1] You can't "support" a person who is lying to themselves. You call them out -- they hate you for it. You support them by "believing in them" -- you deepen their investment in their lie. Nobody wins. Why is it that people all agree "it's mentally hard running a startup"? Is it really so hard? Or is that another face of the grandiosity at work? [1] Obviously I'm not saying this is the cause of all depression or even all startup depression. But I've seen it at work too many times to believe it's insignificant. And in terms of clinical diagnoses, grandiosity is a sign of NPD, and NPD is highly correlated with depression. I don't think a diagnosis of NPD fits an entire culture where grandiosity is the norm, however, but I do believe it can cause depression and not without good reason.

einhverfr 14y ago

> Every time I hear somebody say they are going to "change the world," I cringe. I am now 36. I think every business has to seek to change the world for the better, but I also think that happens through the little things, not the grandiose. The problems of the future will not be solved by grand technological or government solutions but by the radical actions of neighbors helping neighbors....

nhangen 14y ago

Gosh Amy, I don't know what to say about this. I'm a fan, we've met before. In fact, I remember eating pizza together in Miami during Superconf I think...but I can't agree with you here. I guess I'm one that you could say has delusions of grandeur, and I think it's the greatest gift I've ever been given. You'll never hear me say I want to change the world, but I do want to change my world, and I, like many, have lofty ambitions and am not ashamed of that fact. I also don't think it's fair to conflate ambition with false confidence. In fact, I'd argue that increased confidence leads to increased ambition. What's really wrong with a constant raising of stakes if that's what you're into?

joedev 14y ago
The correlations between grandiosity and depression (among other disorders) are broadly discussed in scientific literature but are not well known in popular culture. The lack of public knowledge about the mental-health dangers of grandiosity is not surprising, considering that most of the people who pull the levers of pop-culture suffer from grandiosity themselves.
- nhangen 14y ago
  Were you to say ambition instead, I would agree. Grandiosity is a term used by people that are afraid of the risks associated with achievement.

xyandnoz 14y ago

I mostly agree with Amy's take. And since when did "changing" imply "for the better"? It seems far too many people in our tech world have confused "affecting" with "improving". Yet when I glance around at what we have created -- me absolutely included -- for every world-changing improvement, I see far more products, services, apps with a model that puts the start-up's interests (or their investors, etc.) in direct conflict with "the World's" interests. Yeah, I am no longer in the "changing the world" camp, unless "change" means a NET improvement. The current example that strikes me the most is the gamification platform vendors that feature success stories including weight loss and health compliance, alongside success case-studies of the same platform used to increase sales of high-fructose corn syrup drinks and beer. And they celebrate the fact that they are not just helping company A take market share from company B, but that through software/data-enabled behavior manipulation techniques, they increased the "units" a given customer would buy. Huge win for companies. World-changing?

ahoyhere 14y ago
Excellent point. The word "change" is totally amoral! Also, it doesn't really express degree, either. Either everything changes the world, or nothing does.

hp 14y ago

Steve Jobs made the point nicely: "This stuff doesn’t change the world. It really doesn’t … Technologies can make it easier, can let us touch people we might not otherwise. But it’s a disservice to constantly put things in a radical new light that it’s going to change everything. Things don’t have to change the world to be important."