7 ms·

PHP Just Grows And Grows

46 points by taylorbuley 14y ago

taylorbuley 14y ago
Amazing that you can see such dramatic and sustained growth even on a logarithmic scale
- lemcoe9 14y ago
  They really didn't mention that it was on a log-scale. That's pretty significant to make very prominent in the article...
  - niggler 14y ago
    Did you look at the y axis? The graph labels make it pretty clear
  - klibertp 14y ago
    Um, the plot is titled: "PHP Trend (Logarithmic Scale)"[1]... Isn't this clear enough? :) [1] http://news.netcraft.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/php-trend.png http://news.netcraft.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/php-tren...
  - antoko 14y ago
    The y axis labels are clearly in factors of 10 and the title of graphs says "...(Logarithmic scale)" What more could you want them to do? remove the parens? I was going to say bold the text... but it is already!
xd 14y ago
"ease of extending the language played a large part in its tremendous success," It's the reason I picked it up back in 2001. Being a C programmer up until that point it made the transition to web development incredibly easy. On a side note, I still remember how awesome being able to do `"some string" == $var` was.
- taylorbuley 14y ago
  The spaghetti structure is one of PHP's biggest strengths and weaknesses. A novice can just pick up PHP and run with it. She can start blindly with unstructured code, then move to methods, then finally to OO. The downside, of course: http://www.flickr.com/photos/raindrift/sets/72157629492908038/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/raindrift/sets/7215762949290803...
lukifer 14y ago
PHP has no shortage of weirdnesses and warts, but it occurred to me recently that no other major language was created expressly for the purpose of rendering web pages. All the other major contenders (Python, Ruby, Java, etc) are, for better or worse, general-purpose programming languages, which are pressed into service for rendering HTML strings using various libraries and frameworks. The common wisdom is that PHP's success is due to ubiquity, deployment, and low barrier to entry. While all those are true, the fact that so many web-focused tools are baked into the language itself (meaning minimal time to hunt/learn/evaluate third-party libraries) shouldn't be ignored.
- klibertp 14y ago
  I haven't programmed in PHP for a long time and I could have forgotten, but I don't think there are many (if at all?) web specific language constructs. There are many things in standard library tuned for use in a web environment, that's true, but they are not a part of the language. The only thing I can think of as a web specific in a language itself is a '@' thing used for silencing errors. On the other hand there are languages like Opa and Ur/Web or Racket instaweb dialect which do include language construct specific for web, for example static typing for forms, send/suspend or statically typed xml expressions. I may be wrong on this and I would welcome a correction from someone better informed on the matter.
  - jtreminio 14y ago
    You'd turn error reporting off completely for prod anyway. Please don't use @
    - klibertp 14y ago
      I won't, because I will never again use PHP :) Oh, I just thought that maybe php.ini is another thing that's specific to the web... But I'm not sure, for example there is site.py file in every Python distribution which effectively serves the same purpose, just uses Python instead of ini format. Anything else in the language? I'm really curious.
rbchv 14y ago
It would be interesting to compare PHP's growth with Ruby and Python. For a starting developer, does it still make more sense to learn PHP?
- jtreminio 14y ago
  There is an absolute glut of PHP positions right now, for both inexperienced and highly experienced developers. You'll have to be extra-diligent about making sure the sources you're learning from aren't full of security holes, however.
  - adamors 14y ago
    Security holes, or just bad practices in general. My biggest gripe with PHP is that every CMS, framework, custom built site uses a different style, some echo HTML some even output HTML in the middle of a class definition etc. I remember reading popular Joomla! extension that counted the number of elements in a one dimensional array with a for loop.
    - jtreminio 14y ago
      Drupal, Joomla or Wordpress are not examples of quality PHP products. They are extremely popular because they work, not because of their quality. If you want to see quality, look to the new generation PHP frameworks: Zend Framework 2, Symfony2, for example.
      - ceejayoz 14y ago
        It's an interesting definition of "quality" that doesn't include "the product works".
        jtreminio 14y ago
        I didn't say it wouldn't include. A Ford Fiesta "works", but is not quality.
  - 14y ago
cyrilg 14y ago
The problem with php is that there is no central registry where you can submit your own module like Ruby gems and npm registry for node.js. It feels like you have to reinvent the wheel every time you work on something new...
- klibertp 14y ago
  What about PEAR http://pear.php.net/ http://pear.php.net/ ?
- ericras 14y ago
  http://pear2.php.net/ http://pear2.php.net/ http://getcomposer.org/ http://getcomposer.org/
- aeurielesn 14y ago
  What about Composer[1]? [1]: http://getcomposer.org/ http://getcomposer.org/
- epoxyhockey 14y ago
  Symfony2 with Composer is very similar (IMHO) to Ruby on Rails and gems. Symfony2 calls its modules bundles, instead of gems. If you want to get your feet wet with a multi-user web application, I recommend trying Sonata's sandbox: https://github.com/sonata-project/sandbox#installation https://github.com/sonata-project/sandbox#installation
- johnny22 14y ago
  that would be http://packagist.org http://packagist.org Composer just happens to use packagist as a default repository. It alone is not a repository.
- fein 14y ago
  PECL as well http://pecl.php.net/ http://pecl.php.net/
mykl 14y ago
because it works. q&d scripting to applications. its easy to write bad code in any language, one of my favourites is forth - write only is fair comment, maintaince? php - easy to use, easy to abuse.
dubcanada 14y ago
Oh no an article with PHP in it, here comes the PHP SUCKS BLAH BLAH!
jere 14y ago
>If you find yourself repeatedly putting down a technology, then take some time to actually learn and use it. All the jokes and snide remarks aside, Perl is tremendously useful. Ditto for PHP and Java and C++. Who wins, the person who has been slamming Java online for ten years or the author of Minecraft who just used the language and made tens of millions of dollars? http://prog21.dadgum.com/123.html http://prog21.dadgum.com/123.html
garazy 14y ago
I think we've reached "Peak PHP" our data[1] shows PHP isn't growing at all in the top million sites and Netcraft's data reflects that if you take the "active sites" bar back to the middle of 2011. [1] http://trends.builtwith.com/framework/PHP http://trends.builtwith.com/framework/PHP

46 points by taylorbuley 14y ago

taylorbuley 14y ago

Amazing that you can see such dramatic and sustained growth even on a logarithmic scale

lemcoe9 14y ago
They really didn't mention that it was on a log-scale. That's pretty significant to make very prominent in the article...
- niggler 14y ago
  Did you look at the y axis? The graph labels make it pretty clear
- klibertp 14y ago
  Um, the plot is titled: "PHP Trend (Logarithmic Scale)"[1]... Isn't this clear enough? :) [1] http://news.netcraft.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/php-trend.png http://news.netcraft.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/php-tren...
- antoko 14y ago
  The y axis labels are clearly in factors of 10 and the title of graphs says "...(Logarithmic scale)" What more could you want them to do? remove the parens? I was going to say bold the text... but it is already!

xd 14y ago

"ease of extending the language played a large part in its tremendous success," It's the reason I picked it up back in 2001. Being a C programmer up until that point it made the transition to web development incredibly easy. On a side note, I still remember how awesome being able to do `"some string" == $var` was.

taylorbuley 14y ago
The spaghetti structure is one of PHP's biggest strengths and weaknesses. A novice can just pick up PHP and run with it. She can start blindly with unstructured code, then move to methods, then finally to OO. The downside, of course: http://www.flickr.com/photos/raindrift/sets/72157629492908038/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/raindrift/sets/7215762949290803...

lukifer 14y ago

PHP has no shortage of weirdnesses and warts, but it occurred to me recently that no other major language was created expressly for the purpose of rendering web pages. All the other major contenders (Python, Ruby, Java, etc) are, for better or worse, general-purpose programming languages, which are pressed into service for rendering HTML strings using various libraries and frameworks. The common wisdom is that PHP's success is due to ubiquity, deployment, and low barrier to entry. While all those are true, the fact that so many web-focused tools are baked into the language itself (meaning minimal time to hunt/learn/evaluate third-party libraries) shouldn't be ignored.

klibertp 14y ago
I haven't programmed in PHP for a long time and I could have forgotten, but I don't think there are many (if at all?) web specific language constructs. There are many things in standard library tuned for use in a web environment, that's true, but they are not a part of the language. The only thing I can think of as a web specific in a language itself is a '@' thing used for silencing errors. On the other hand there are languages like Opa and Ur/Web or Racket instaweb dialect which do include language construct specific for web, for example static typing for forms, send/suspend or statically typed xml expressions. I may be wrong on this and I would welcome a correction from someone better informed on the matter.
- jtreminio 14y ago
  You'd turn error reporting off completely for prod anyway. Please don't use @
  - klibertp 14y ago
    I won't, because I will never again use PHP :) Oh, I just thought that maybe php.ini is another thing that's specific to the web... But I'm not sure, for example there is site.py file in every Python distribution which effectively serves the same purpose, just uses Python instead of ini format. Anything else in the language? I'm really curious.

rbchv 14y ago

It would be interesting to compare PHP's growth with Ruby and Python. For a starting developer, does it still make more sense to learn PHP?

jtreminio 14y ago
There is an absolute glut of PHP positions right now, for both inexperienced and highly experienced developers. You'll have to be extra-diligent about making sure the sources you're learning from aren't full of security holes, however.
- adamors 14y ago
  Security holes, or just bad practices in general. My biggest gripe with PHP is that every CMS, framework, custom built site uses a different style, some echo HTML some even output HTML in the middle of a class definition etc. I remember reading popular Joomla! extension that counted the number of elements in a one dimensional array with a for loop.
  - jtreminio 14y ago
    Drupal, Joomla or Wordpress are not examples of quality PHP products. They are extremely popular because they work, not because of their quality. If you want to see quality, look to the new generation PHP frameworks: Zend Framework 2, Symfony2, for example.
    - ceejayoz 14y ago
      It's an interesting definition of "quality" that doesn't include "the product works".
      - jtreminio 14y ago
        I didn't say it wouldn't include. A Ford Fiesta "works", but is not quality.
- 14y ago

cyrilg 14y ago

The problem with php is that there is no central registry where you can submit your own module like Ruby gems and npm registry for node.js. It feels like you have to reinvent the wheel every time you work on something new...

klibertp 14y ago
What about PEAR http://pear.php.net/ http://pear.php.net/ ?
ericras 14y ago
http://pear2.php.net/ http://pear2.php.net/ http://getcomposer.org/ http://getcomposer.org/
aeurielesn 14y ago
What about Composer[1]? [1]: http://getcomposer.org/ http://getcomposer.org/
epoxyhockey 14y ago
Symfony2 with Composer is very similar (IMHO) to Ruby on Rails and gems. Symfony2 calls its modules bundles, instead of gems. If you want to get your feet wet with a multi-user web application, I recommend trying Sonata's sandbox: https://github.com/sonata-project/sandbox#installation https://github.com/sonata-project/sandbox#installation
johnny22 14y ago
that would be http://packagist.org http://packagist.org Composer just happens to use packagist as a default repository. It alone is not a repository.
fein 14y ago
PECL as well http://pecl.php.net/ http://pecl.php.net/

mykl 14y ago

because it works. q&d scripting to applications. its easy to write bad code in any language, one of my favourites is forth - write only is fair comment, maintaince? php - easy to use, easy to abuse.

dubcanada 14y ago

Oh no an article with PHP in it, here comes the PHP SUCKS BLAH BLAH!

jere 14y ago

>If you find yourself repeatedly putting down a technology, then take some time to actually learn and use it. All the jokes and snide remarks aside, Perl is tremendously useful. Ditto for PHP and Java and C++. Who wins, the person who has been slamming Java online for ten years or the author of Minecraft who just used the language and made tens of millions of dollars? http://prog21.dadgum.com/123.html http://prog21.dadgum.com/123.html

garazy 14y ago

I think we've reached "Peak PHP" our data[1] shows PHP isn't growing at all in the top million sites and Netcraft's data reflects that if you take the "active sites" bar back to the middle of 2011. [1] http://trends.builtwith.com/framework/PHP http://trends.builtwith.com/framework/PHP