5 ms·

I remember you guys wanted to create simplified MNG 2.0, without stuff like MAGN and delta-PNG. What happened to it?

by maxst 14y ago

eggspurt 14y ago
Honestly, I tuned out. Animations are procedural and are best represented with a scripting language - not with a declarative image format. Resource-constraining javascript within an (i)frame is probably a better way to spend a browser developer's time.
- maxst 14y ago
  I believe there is a niche for simple animations: just a sequence of frames in a loop. No need for JavaScript, since it's just a simple loop. Easy to upload to image hosting services. And all browsers already support such simple-loop animated GIFs, so the code is already there, just not utilized to full (true color) potential.
- zevyoura 14y ago
  This is true for the majority of animations, but .gifs have come to serve a niche for short video content sans audio that they uniquely fulfill on the web. If APNG or MNG or whatever could replace huge animated .gifs for things like r/cinemagraphs I'd be thrilled.
  - eggspurt 14y ago
    Having seen animated gifs, I can assure you that mngs (pronounced as mings) would be likewise huge. It's better to just have a 1-line JS script do this, and a standard for sandboxing nonthreatening JS.
    - maxst 14y ago
      But you can't upload that 1-line JS script to imgur. Animated GIFs are getting very popular again because even with 5Mb-8Mb sizes GIFs are easier to handle today, comparing to downloading that 200Kb Dancing_Baby.gif in the 90s.
    - zevyoura 14y ago
      My understanding is that PNGs are in general smaller than gifs for equivalent quality, so wouldn't the animated version be similarly smaller?
snogglethorpe 14y ago
Wait, you want to remove deltas?! Animated GIFs are still humongous and slow to load, even with today's fast network links... Surely one of the bet reasons to replace them is to actually do a bit better.
- maxst 14y ago
  The type of deltas used in GIF can be easily implemented as it's the standard alpha blending method, available at OS and GPU level. Can't say that about more complex delta-PNG algorithm from MNG spec.

I remember you guys wanted to create simplified MNG 2.0, without stuff like MAGN and delta-PNG. What happened to it?

by maxst 14y ago

I remember you guys wanted to create simplified MNG 2.0, without stuff like MAGN and delta-PNG. What happened to it?

Honestly, I tuned out. Animations are procedural and are best represented with a scripting language - not with a declarative image format. Resource-constraining javascript within an (i)frame is probably a better way to spend a browser developer's time.

maxst 14y ago
I believe there is a niche for simple animations: just a sequence of frames in a loop. No need for JavaScript, since it's just a simple loop. Easy to upload to image hosting services. And all browsers already support such simple-loop animated GIFs, so the code is already there, just not utilized to full (true color) potential.
zevyoura 14y ago
This is true for the majority of animations, but .gifs have come to serve a niche for short video content sans audio that they uniquely fulfill on the web. If APNG or MNG or whatever could replace huge animated .gifs for things like r/cinemagraphs I'd be thrilled.
- eggspurt 14y ago
  Having seen animated gifs, I can assure you that mngs (pronounced as mings) would be likewise huge. It's better to just have a 1-line JS script do this, and a standard for sandboxing nonthreatening JS.
  - maxst 14y ago
    But you can't upload that 1-line JS script to imgur. Animated GIFs are getting very popular again because even with 5Mb-8Mb sizes GIFs are easier to handle today, comparing to downloading that 200Kb Dancing_Baby.gif in the 90s.
  - zevyoura 14y ago
    My understanding is that PNGs are in general smaller than gifs for equivalent quality, so wouldn't the animated version be similarly smaller?

snogglethorpe 14y ago

Wait, you want to remove deltas?! Animated GIFs are still humongous and slow to load, even with today's fast network links... Surely one of the bet reasons to replace them is to actually do a bit better.

maxst 14y ago
The type of deltas used in GIF can be easily implemented as it's the standard alpha blending method, available at OS and GPU level. Can't say that about more complex delta-PNG algorithm from MNG spec.