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From the language you quoted above it sounds to my un-trained ear like he's comparing a programming language to a natural language. I wonder how many of our pr

by Osmium 14y ago

From the language you quoted above it sounds to my un-trained ear like he's comparing a programming language to a natural language. I wonder how many of our problems are due to deciding to call them "programming languages" rather than something like "programming notation" instead? There seems to be a conceptual problem, especially among people who don't program, as to just what a programming language actually is.

webreac 14y ago
The programming language is the language used to give instructions to a machine. For me, it is very similar to a natural language. What do you mean by "programming notation" ?
- Osmium 14y ago
  For me, a programming language is closer to mathematical notation than it is to a natural language that people use to communicate with each other. It's rigorous, logical, and typically the product of one entity rather than a natural language which is the product of everyone who uses it. To put it another way, since the quote mentioned this, I don't think it's fair to compare a dictionary for a natural language to a dictionary for a computer language, because they're quite different things. One records and documents a process already happening [language evolution], while another is the process itself [language creation]. Just a personal opinion, that's all -- I just think analogies can be stretched too far, and by calling computer languages "languages" I think it's backed the discourse about them into a corner a little bit. Which is not to say all comparisons between computer language and "normal" languages are wrong, just that they're not really appropriate in this instance when discussing copypwritability.
  - Colliwinks 14y ago
    What is meant by a 'language' is actually fairly well defined mathematically: That is something that can be described by a number of grammars. These in turn can be categorised (see the Chomsky Hierarchy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chomsky_hierarchy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chomsky_hierarchy) In that sense, programming languages, regular expressions, and natural language can all be identified by what types of grammar can define them.
tehwalrus 14y ago
Indeed, I think this is the principal problem in the way the judge gives his conclusion. However, Programming statements are definitely "language" as linguists discuss, in that they have notions of syntax, and so on - i.e. there are Good Reasons they are called languages.

by Osmium 14y ago

webreac 14y ago

The programming language is the language used to give instructions to a machine. For me, it is very similar to a natural language. What do you mean by "programming notation" ?

Osmium 14y ago
For me, a programming language is closer to mathematical notation than it is to a natural language that people use to communicate with each other. It's rigorous, logical, and typically the product of one entity rather than a natural language which is the product of everyone who uses it. To put it another way, since the quote mentioned this, I don't think it's fair to compare a dictionary for a natural language to a dictionary for a computer language, because they're quite different things. One records and documents a process already happening [language evolution], while another is the process itself [language creation]. Just a personal opinion, that's all -- I just think analogies can be stretched too far, and by calling computer languages "languages" I think it's backed the discourse about them into a corner a little bit. Which is not to say all comparisons between computer language and "normal" languages are wrong, just that they're not really appropriate in this instance when discussing copypwritability.
- Colliwinks 14y ago
  What is meant by a 'language' is actually fairly well defined mathematically: That is something that can be described by a number of grammars. These in turn can be categorised (see the Chomsky Hierarchy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chomsky_hierarchy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chomsky_hierarchy) In that sense, programming languages, regular expressions, and natural language can all be identified by what types of grammar can define them.

tehwalrus 14y ago

Indeed, I think this is the principal problem in the way the judge gives his conclusion. However, Programming statements are definitely "language" as linguists discuss, in that they have notions of syntax, and so on - i.e. there are Good Reasons they are called languages.