4 ms·

A lot of uniformed people in this thread. You can't generalise as much as you all do. You have to understand that people experience life in very different ways

by lhnz 14y ago

A lot of uniformed people in this thread. You can't generalise as much as you all do. You have to understand that people experience life in very different ways. I have experienced depression [0] but I can't speak for anybody else other than to say I know it's hard and keep on. The real problem with depression is that everybody wants to wash their hands of it. "There are doctors that we can pass these sick people to. The system will sort everything out. That guy's a real downer, I hope he get's help... from somebody else..." I understand that it can be a mood-ruiner and people feel ashamed of it even by association but where is the strength in ignoring things? Compassion would truly be helpful and if you can give it, give it. Go for CBT and you'll find it largely amounts to filling out forms on your mental state with tickboxes that don't really apply to you, while somebody tries to find out ways that your thinking is twisted. But you can be rational, successful, positive and still feel awful. Do you want to medicate the hell out of the high-functioning, positive guy that wants to change the world [1]? The term 'chemical imbalance' sometimes gets thrown around, and honestly it's probably wrong but there is a truth to it -- often the people that say they have a chemical imbalance are thinking quite rationally but facing terrible emotions that they know they shouldn't have to (from trauma, or an unhealthy subconscious.) [0] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5096568 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5096568 [1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgh2dFngFsg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgh2dFngFsg edit; If you're going to downvote me it would be nice if you would mention why. Do you actually have experience of any of this? I'm trying to give my honest experience on this, and I'm trying to point out that a guy like Aaron Swartz doesn't really fit the neat definitions required by most treatments; and that compassion beyond telling others to 'go to a doctor' is worthwhile.

DanBC 14y ago
I didn't downvote you. > Go for CBT and you'll find it largely amounts to filling out forms on your mental state with tickboxes that don't really apply to you, while somebody tries to find out ways that your thinking is twisted. This is a poor version of CBT. Any practitioner providing CBT like this is doing it wrong. CBT is not about telling you that you are wrong or that your thinking is twisted. CBT is about exploring with you what your thinking is; what's happening to you with those thoughts; how strongly you feel those thoughts and emotions. CBT is about helping you understand why you feel the things that you feel, and why you think the things you think. There can be a bit of writing when you begin - some people find it useful to have the process down in a concrete form. There doesn't have to be writing. And checking boxes is not a good approach. Medication works for some people. But the serotonin hypothesis is controversial. > Do you want to medicate the hell out of the high-functioning, positive guy that wants to change the world (I didn't view the YouTube) Medication can have side effects, and sometimes they're not very nice. But most SSRIs don't have the kind of effects that people would describe as "medicate the hell out of".
- G5ANDY 14y ago
  Unfortunately, as it is practiced, this IS what CBT ends up being a good deal of the time. CBT has an implicit, and sometimes explicit, mechanistic view of human nature. This can come off as extremely judgmental to vulnerable and intelligent clients. Other approaches, like Motivational Interviewing, adopt a neutral stance that offers the potential for clients to actually explore their feelings instead of just getting rid of them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motivational_interviewing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motivational_interviewing Edit: re-reading my comment, I think I am coming off too hard on CBT. There are real reasons why clients can come out of CBT thinking the therapist is trying to find what is twisted with them or having them fill out pointless booklets - this does not completely undercut what CBT is about. There is good working going on to combine CBT with Motivational Interviewing to improve treatment of depression and suicidality. http://www.selfdeterminationtheory.org/SDT/documents/2011_BrittonPatricketal_CBP.pdf http://www.selfdeterminationtheory.org/SDT/documents/2011_Br...
  - larve 14y ago
    i am doing CBT (not often though, busy travelling work schedule). I suffer from bipolar I, and while the medication was the one thing that just completely changed my life, CBT is there to help me to: - figure out my mood. this is about keeping checklists on how long i sleep, how i feel, if i took my medication, if i ate correctly. this sounds terribly stupid, but it is very hard for me to even understand what i am feeling. seeing a little graph that tells me "you have been sleeping 16 hours a day for the last 2 weeks, and now you are barely able to sleep for 3 hours, something is going on" is very helpful. - figure out what i need to do when certain patterns have been recognized. this is for example upping up on sports, being careful about diet, going out to see people when i'm in the down phase. and conversely cutting down on sports, going out, meditation (which makes me way too energetic and stimulated), stimulants when being too far up. - figuring out my own personal triggers and signs for depression. this is starting to come along, and these are kind of "personal" things. if i want a new tatoo, or learn a new skill or programming language, i should be careful because this is what usually accompanies mania. it also involves meeting with other people with the same illness, and just for a few hours every year feeling that you are not the only one in that mess. an interesting thing about the mood graphs is suddenly realizing that a lot of these mood swings actually come out of the blue, or are more related to seasonal effects. it is my brain tricking me into finding causes and patterns and reasons. i don't want to commit suicide because nobody loves me, it's more i think nobody loves me because i am depressed because i haven't gone out for 2 weeks and missed out on my medication 3 days in a row. or because it is december. i find CBT (at least with the practictioner i have) to be a very no-bullshit pragmatic approach to handling the psychological side of the illness. but seriously (and in a way, thank god i have bipolar), medication works extremely well, and the one i take (lamictal) has almost no side effect.

by lhnz 14y ago

DanBC 14y ago

I didn't downvote you. > Go for CBT and you'll find it largely amounts to filling out forms on your mental state with tickboxes that don't really apply to you, while somebody tries to find out ways that your thinking is twisted. This is a poor version of CBT. Any practitioner providing CBT like this is doing it wrong. CBT is not about telling you that you are wrong or that your thinking is twisted. CBT is about exploring with you what your thinking is; what's happening to you with those thoughts; how strongly you feel those thoughts and emotions. CBT is about helping you understand why you feel the things that you feel, and why you think the things you think. There can be a bit of writing when you begin - some people find it useful to have the process down in a concrete form. There doesn't have to be writing. And checking boxes is not a good approach. Medication works for some people. But the serotonin hypothesis is controversial. > Do you want to medicate the hell out of the high-functioning, positive guy that wants to change the world (I didn't view the YouTube) Medication can have side effects, and sometimes they're not very nice. But most SSRIs don't have the kind of effects that people would describe as "medicate the hell out of".

G5ANDY 14y ago
Unfortunately, as it is practiced, this IS what CBT ends up being a good deal of the time. CBT has an implicit, and sometimes explicit, mechanistic view of human nature. This can come off as extremely judgmental to vulnerable and intelligent clients. Other approaches, like Motivational Interviewing, adopt a neutral stance that offers the potential for clients to actually explore their feelings instead of just getting rid of them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motivational_interviewing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motivational_interviewing Edit: re-reading my comment, I think I am coming off too hard on CBT. There are real reasons why clients can come out of CBT thinking the therapist is trying to find what is twisted with them or having them fill out pointless booklets - this does not completely undercut what CBT is about. There is good working going on to combine CBT with Motivational Interviewing to improve treatment of depression and suicidality. http://www.selfdeterminationtheory.org/SDT/documents/2011_BrittonPatricketal_CBP.pdf http://www.selfdeterminationtheory.org/SDT/documents/2011_Br...
- larve 14y ago
  i am doing CBT (not often though, busy travelling work schedule). I suffer from bipolar I, and while the medication was the one thing that just completely changed my life, CBT is there to help me to: - figure out my mood. this is about keeping checklists on how long i sleep, how i feel, if i took my medication, if i ate correctly. this sounds terribly stupid, but it is very hard for me to even understand what i am feeling. seeing a little graph that tells me "you have been sleeping 16 hours a day for the last 2 weeks, and now you are barely able to sleep for 3 hours, something is going on" is very helpful. - figure out what i need to do when certain patterns have been recognized. this is for example upping up on sports, being careful about diet, going out to see people when i'm in the down phase. and conversely cutting down on sports, going out, meditation (which makes me way too energetic and stimulated), stimulants when being too far up. - figuring out my own personal triggers and signs for depression. this is starting to come along, and these are kind of "personal" things. if i want a new tatoo, or learn a new skill or programming language, i should be careful because this is what usually accompanies mania. it also involves meeting with other people with the same illness, and just for a few hours every year feeling that you are not the only one in that mess. an interesting thing about the mood graphs is suddenly realizing that a lot of these mood swings actually come out of the blue, or are more related to seasonal effects. it is my brain tricking me into finding causes and patterns and reasons. i don't want to commit suicide because nobody loves me, it's more i think nobody loves me because i am depressed because i haven't gone out for 2 weeks and missed out on my medication 3 days in a row. or because it is december. i find CBT (at least with the practictioner i have) to be a very no-bullshit pragmatic approach to handling the psychological side of the illness. but seriously (and in a way, thank god i have bipolar), medication works extremely well, and the one i take (lamictal) has almost no side effect.