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When I voiced a positive opinion of the bad stock market, the people in my office became outraged and I was ostracized and ridiculed for being Un-American. The

When I voiced a positive opinion of the bad stock market, the people in my office became outraged and I was ostracized and ridiculed for being Un-American. The bad stock market and bad economy in general are perfect for people in my position who are just starting out and are looking for an opportunity.

jfornear 18y ago
Sure, but it really sucks for a whole lot more people who are not just starting out and have lost their retirement. I would be more sensitive about that.
- patio11 18y ago
  have lost their retirement I would encourage people to not repeat things like this because they might convince a fiscally illiterate person (i.e. most of the population) that it is true. If you had a million dollars in your IRA last year, you are highly likely to have about $600,000 now. (This is if you had a portfolio 100% concentrated in equities -- and if you did this close to retirement, well, there is no helping you now is there.) If you were planning on a 4% withdraw rate ($40k) last year, it is likely to remain safe currently: even with the 40% drawdown the market has seen, historically at a 4% withdraw rate you are overwhelmingly likely to die before your money runs out. The worst case scenario for the typical investor is that they push back retirement for a year or two, which has large effects on longevity. The big threat to retirements isn't transient financial difficulties, however disruptive they may be. The big threat is underfunding. This goes for pensions and individual investors. Your IRA/401k is NOT an emergency fund or excuse to go on a vacation between jobs, people.
  - jfornear 18y ago
    A million dollars? Over 50% of Americans have less than $25k in retirement funds. Even 40% of ages 55+ have less than $25k... Obviously no one literally lost their retirement (as long as there's a penny in there, right?), but all I was trying to say was that we should be sensitive about these things. As young people with nothing to lose, we shouldn't be surprised to offend someone with optimism in this environment.
    - patio11 18y ago
      Even 40% of ages 55+ have less than $25k... I know. These folks have no more lost their retirement due to the financial downturn than I have lost an aircraft carrier full of Swedish supermodels and propelled by unicorns. An inspection of my back pocket will not reveal that aircraft carrier, but that doesn't mean I lost it. Clearly if you've got $25k in your retirement account close to retirement, whether it declines to $15k or explodes to $100k is immaterial to your prospects of retiring: you're going to be almost wholly dependent on other sources of income either way. (Social security, pensions, income from working, familial support, etc.)
      - jfornear 18y ago
        > These folks have no more lost their retirement due to the financial downturn than I have lost an aircraft carrier full of Swedish supermodels and propelled by unicorns. I LOL'ed. I think you are just taking what I said too literally. I get what you mean, though.
      - eru 18y ago
        Living the rest of your live on $100k can be done easily. But you have to move into a cheap country.
d_c 18y ago
This seems to me a rather unjustified response, especially with the financial constructs that have enabled the current crisis in mind, which are a very American invention indeed.

jfornear 18y ago

Sure, but it really sucks for a whole lot more people who are not just starting out and have lost their retirement. I would be more sensitive about that.

patio11 18y ago
have lost their retirement I would encourage people to not repeat things like this because they might convince a fiscally illiterate person (i.e. most of the population) that it is true. If you had a million dollars in your IRA last year, you are highly likely to have about $600,000 now. (This is if you had a portfolio 100% concentrated in equities -- and if you did this close to retirement, well, there is no helping you now is there.) If you were planning on a 4% withdraw rate ($40k) last year, it is likely to remain safe currently: even with the 40% drawdown the market has seen, historically at a 4% withdraw rate you are overwhelmingly likely to die before your money runs out. The worst case scenario for the typical investor is that they push back retirement for a year or two, which has large effects on longevity. The big threat to retirements isn't transient financial difficulties, however disruptive they may be. The big threat is underfunding. This goes for pensions and individual investors. Your IRA/401k is NOT an emergency fund or excuse to go on a vacation between jobs, people.
- jfornear 18y ago
  A million dollars? Over 50% of Americans have less than $25k in retirement funds. Even 40% of ages 55+ have less than $25k... Obviously no one literally lost their retirement (as long as there's a penny in there, right?), but all I was trying to say was that we should be sensitive about these things. As young people with nothing to lose, we shouldn't be surprised to offend someone with optimism in this environment.
  - patio11 18y ago
    Even 40% of ages 55+ have less than $25k... I know. These folks have no more lost their retirement due to the financial downturn than I have lost an aircraft carrier full of Swedish supermodels and propelled by unicorns. An inspection of my back pocket will not reveal that aircraft carrier, but that doesn't mean I lost it. Clearly if you've got $25k in your retirement account close to retirement, whether it declines to $15k or explodes to $100k is immaterial to your prospects of retiring: you're going to be almost wholly dependent on other sources of income either way. (Social security, pensions, income from working, familial support, etc.)
    - jfornear 18y ago
      > These folks have no more lost their retirement due to the financial downturn than I have lost an aircraft carrier full of Swedish supermodels and propelled by unicorns. I LOL'ed. I think you are just taking what I said too literally. I get what you mean, though.
    - eru 18y ago
      Living the rest of your live on $100k can be done easily. But you have to move into a cheap country.

d_c 18y ago

This seems to me a rather unjustified response, especially with the financial constructs that have enabled the current crisis in mind, which are a very American invention indeed.