8 ms·

Reflections on Cannabis, Ayahuasca and the mystery of plant teachers

72 points by gnosis 14y ago

NatW 14y ago
True story: A close friend of mine took Ayahuasca with a shaman and was then committed to a psychiatric facility in New York for almost a week. She was badly shaken up by the experience. I guess she didn't have good support, or she wasn't suited to taking it, but obviously the experience turned out to be horrific. So be careful with decisions like this...
- gnosis 14y ago
  It is very unfortunate that this happened to your friend. However, brief anecdotes like this are not incredibly useful without a great deal of additional information. * Did your friend or others in her family have a history of mental illness? * Was she depressed or otherwise suffering from mental illness at the time of the trip? * Was she on any other drugs (prescribed or not) apart from ayahuasca? * Had she had much previous experience with psychedelics? * Did she try to fight the experience or was she able to surrender to it and go with the flow (a very important skill to have, when using psychedelics)? * Was she in a safe environment, among trusted people during the trip? * Did she have a concrete, positive intention for the trip? Or was she just taking it for the hell of it? * How much did she know about what she was getting in to? * How qualified was the shaman she took the brew with? Unfortunately, many self-styled shamen don't have the proper training, or (occasionaly) any training at all. There could be incentive for people to misrepresent themselves and their credentials, especially when money is involved. Yes, one should definitely be very careful, and avoid taking psychedelics when one or one's family has a history of mental illness, is currently suffering from mental illness (including plain old depression), or is using any other psychoactive medication (such as antidepressants, antipsychotics, etc). You should also seriously check out the credentials of any shaman or guide you're taking the medicine with, and be sure you are in a safe, supportive environment during the trip. Finally, thoroughly educate yourself on the substance and constructive ways of using it.
  - cageface 14y ago
    I have two good friends who did themselves some serious harm with psychedelics. One has been in an institution for years as a result, the other needs daily anti-psychotic meds to function. I certainly have also seen people benefit from psychedelics but the danger is real and it's difficult for the dilettante to predict who is at risk and who is not.
  - NatW 14y ago
    My friend did NOT have a history of mental illness. I think her dad may have had a little OCD, but nothing else that was obvious to me. I haven't followed up with her to ask her these, but this is what I think is true: She was not on other drugs at all as far as I know. I don't think she'd ever done psychedelics before. I don't know too many details of the environment she did it in, but it was with an apparently-experienced shaman I think recommended by her yoga teacher friend. It was the yoga teacher who recommended to her that she try it. All that she knew, she likely heard from this friend who had done it before. She is a Buddhist, but I don't know what her intentions were. I don't know anything about the shaman. I know that it was a medical doctor good friend of hers that committed her to the psych ward afterwords, so she really needed it. anyway, hope this helps. be careful!
- virtualwhys 14y ago
  I went to grad school with a guy who, while traveling in Brazil, encountered a shaman/teacher, and decided to take a so-called "heroic dose". Apparently the roof of the sky ripped open and voila, GOD. Was a bit much as he took 2 years to recover and, AFAIK, has been substance free ever since. Also know a guy who lived in the Amazon taking Ayahuasca daily for 6 months -- came back stateside completely & utterly beaming with joy. it seems, YMMV ;-) p.s. why do threads on the use of psychedelics pop up on Hacker News? Thought this was for start ups and general technology topics...
  - sunyata 14y ago
    Some feel that psychedelics have had and continue to effect our industry?
    - beatpanda 14y ago
      Steve Jobs and Larry Ellison both publicly attribute(d) their success in part to psychedelics, so "some feel" is probably understating the case.
  - jasonm23 14y ago
    There's a long symbiosis of psychedelics with hackers. Something about information wanting to be free, curiosity, and deep insight...
    - virtualwhys 14y ago
      hmmm, yes, deep insight. I actually gave a hit of LSD to a Zen priest from Japan once. Said it was interesting, hallucinated and so on. However, he was quite clear that psychedelics as a path to awakening is...off the mark. Anyway, monastics are on a permanent trip...just like you and me, even off the mark, we can't help but nail it, life is the biggest bulls eye around ;-)
      - diggum 14y ago
        they can certainly help one see amazing insights or interesting things, but he's correct that they're not particularly good as a tool to awaken/enlightenment. too much distraction.
p3nt3ll3r 14y ago
good luck buddy. pass.
serf 14y ago
so either I smoke weed.. or my body is a cocoon of truths being ripped apart by 'them'? Well I know what i'm choosing.
redwood 14y ago
A lot of the descriptions of Ayahuasca are similar to mushrooms (everything depends on dosage of course!) Truly life-augmenting experiences. As a 10 year pot smoker I stopped rather randomly about 4 months ago. I didn't do it for any reason besides respiratory health, and probably wouldn't have changed if I had a good vaporizer. It's fine not smoking but I drink more and find my mind moving away from the broad thinking pot encouraged. I'll probably find a way to balance it in in some way again in the future. The likes of psychedelics, however, are framing or pivotal events in my life, generally done in the wilderness. My feelings are similar to Steve Jobs... they are incredibly powerful experiences and I yearn to share them with those I'm close with. I imagine I'll be having these experiences throughout my life.
- exodust 14y ago
  Similar to mushrooms? Maybe the perception change, but as for... "a mixture of foot-rot, raw sewage, battery acid, sulfur and just a hint of chocolate. Within about 45 minutes of drinking it you frequently begin to suffer bouts of severe nausea, vomiting and diarrhea." This is NOT anything like mushrooms unless you've taken the wrong kind.
  - akavi 14y ago
    I've consumed heavy doses of ayahuasca on three occasions, and never experienced diarrhea. Nor have my friends or any of the innumerable people who have posted experiences online. You will vomit, however.
    - deleted 14y ago
      [deleted]
- virtualwhys 14y ago
  Have you tried not smoking AND not drinking? ;-) Same boat, I smoked a lot of herb growing up (never drawn to drink particularly), but stopped in my 20s for about 6 years. No longer clear, smoke every couple of weeks, and trip a couple times a year, 1/4 of shrooms and off into the woods, goodbye world. foolish pride in you I am broken praise The love in and beyond all things, is there anyone more blind than myself? Sorry, got a bit off track there...back to "reality"
exodust 14y ago
"Perhaps they ARE all 'within the brain' as skeptics say". Right, so it's only "skeptics" who point out the bleeding obvious? I think we can safely say it is most certainly all within the brain. That's what the drug is directly influencing, and as a result your mind goes over the waterfall and you are forced to just go along with it, or suffer if you put up resistance. The problem with long term fans of DMT, cannabis, and all manner of psychedelics is that you end up writing books about it that mean more to you than they could anyone else. There's exceptions (Castaneda), but that's generally how it goes. The thing is, if you need to take Ayahuasca before your own brain tells you that your abuse of pot is out of control, then that points to something far less sophisticated than the exotic make-believe problems of spiritual junkies. It points to the obvious: that you're lazy. It really is that simple. Not to undermine the importance of getting back to basics or nature, and sorting through personal issues, perhaps even under the influence of psychedelics - that can be a very cleansing experience. But you shouldn't need to go to Brazil for that and drink sewerage tasting cocktails of God-knows what and vomit your guts up. That is nothing more than conscientious stupidity (IMHO).
- virtualwhys 14y ago
  Well, life comes with batteries included, but the desire to hook up the 240 volt is there regardless. Here, brain, inside, outside, no idea what any of that means. It's like saying what is outside of everything, or what is inside of outside. Not one single thing can be explained, but as if by magic Scala 2.10 build times remain slow and another Ruby library gets hacked into. And so it goes...ours is not to reason why
- dougk16 14y ago
  > I think we can safely say it is most certainly all within the brain. Occam's razor says you're probably right, but personally I'm holding out the slim hope that there's something much cooler going on, call it primitive telepathy or whatever. The next few decades will hopefully tell. > But you shouldn't need to go to Brazil for that and drink sewerage tasting cocktails of God-knows what and vomit your guts up. That is nothing more than conscientious stupidity (IMHO). This is less stupid than popping a pill whose side effects take longer to list than the rest of its commercial. I mean, just look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venlafaxine#Adverse_effects http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venlafaxine#Adverse_effects. That's stupid, and it was a good point made in the post.
clueless123 14y ago
FWIW, A couple of (semi) recent local news (here in Peru) about the practice... http://america.infobae.com/notas/57978-Peru-joven-estadounidense-murio-al-tomar-ayahuasca http://america.infobae.com/notas/57978-Peru-joven-estadounid... http://peru.com/2011/11/28/actualidad/otras-noticias/video-muere-frances-ceremonia-ayahuaca-noticia-31793 http://peru.com/2011/11/28/actualidad/otras-noticias/video-m... I am not saying don't do it.. just be careful with what you do.
contingencies 14y ago
For a broader, frequently updated, shorter-form and better categorized collection of this sort of reading check out http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/forums/40-Trip-Reports http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/forums/40-Trip-Reports
gadders 14y ago
The news that Graham Hancock was a cannabis addict explains a lot, such as his Orion Correlation Theory [1] [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_Hancock#Orion_Correlation_Theory http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_Hancock#Orion_Correlatio...
josscrowcroft 14y ago
Each to their own, and Graham's writing style kind of rubs me the wrong way, but Ayahuasca changed everything for me. Inexpressible gratitude. 'Nuff said.
LatvjuAvs 14y ago
One lives his life loving all things and finding place for everything, connecting everything. One lives life weeding out things he do not like, burning down bridges, building new ones, exterminating problems and severing connections, building new ones when needed. Sadly, only one of them will accept other.
nacker 14y ago
Say what you want about the "Green Bitch", she's never killed anyone, unlike the "White Bitch". http://jacquesmattheij.com/this-white-powder-will-kill-me-one-day http://jacquesmattheij.com/this-white-powder-will-kill-me-on...

72 points by gnosis 14y ago

NatW 14y ago

True story: A close friend of mine took Ayahuasca with a shaman and was then committed to a psychiatric facility in New York for almost a week. She was badly shaken up by the experience. I guess she didn't have good support, or she wasn't suited to taking it, but obviously the experience turned out to be horrific. So be careful with decisions like this...

gnosis 14y ago
It is very unfortunate that this happened to your friend. However, brief anecdotes like this are not incredibly useful without a great deal of additional information. * Did your friend or others in her family have a history of mental illness? * Was she depressed or otherwise suffering from mental illness at the time of the trip? * Was she on any other drugs (prescribed or not) apart from ayahuasca? * Had she had much previous experience with psychedelics? * Did she try to fight the experience or was she able to surrender to it and go with the flow (a very important skill to have, when using psychedelics)? * Was she in a safe environment, among trusted people during the trip? * Did she have a concrete, positive intention for the trip? Or was she just taking it for the hell of it? * How much did she know about what she was getting in to? * How qualified was the shaman she took the brew with? Unfortunately, many self-styled shamen don't have the proper training, or (occasionaly) any training at all. There could be incentive for people to misrepresent themselves and their credentials, especially when money is involved. Yes, one should definitely be very careful, and avoid taking psychedelics when one or one's family has a history of mental illness, is currently suffering from mental illness (including plain old depression), or is using any other psychoactive medication (such as antidepressants, antipsychotics, etc). You should also seriously check out the credentials of any shaman or guide you're taking the medicine with, and be sure you are in a safe, supportive environment during the trip. Finally, thoroughly educate yourself on the substance and constructive ways of using it.
- cageface 14y ago
  I have two good friends who did themselves some serious harm with psychedelics. One has been in an institution for years as a result, the other needs daily anti-psychotic meds to function. I certainly have also seen people benefit from psychedelics but the danger is real and it's difficult for the dilettante to predict who is at risk and who is not.
- NatW 14y ago
  My friend did NOT have a history of mental illness. I think her dad may have had a little OCD, but nothing else that was obvious to me. I haven't followed up with her to ask her these, but this is what I think is true: She was not on other drugs at all as far as I know. I don't think she'd ever done psychedelics before. I don't know too many details of the environment she did it in, but it was with an apparently-experienced shaman I think recommended by her yoga teacher friend. It was the yoga teacher who recommended to her that she try it. All that she knew, she likely heard from this friend who had done it before. She is a Buddhist, but I don't know what her intentions were. I don't know anything about the shaman. I know that it was a medical doctor good friend of hers that committed her to the psych ward afterwords, so she really needed it. anyway, hope this helps. be careful!
virtualwhys 14y ago
I went to grad school with a guy who, while traveling in Brazil, encountered a shaman/teacher, and decided to take a so-called "heroic dose". Apparently the roof of the sky ripped open and voila, GOD. Was a bit much as he took 2 years to recover and, AFAIK, has been substance free ever since. Also know a guy who lived in the Amazon taking Ayahuasca daily for 6 months -- came back stateside completely & utterly beaming with joy. it seems, YMMV ;-) p.s. why do threads on the use of psychedelics pop up on Hacker News? Thought this was for start ups and general technology topics...
- sunyata 14y ago
  Some feel that psychedelics have had and continue to effect our industry?
  - beatpanda 14y ago
    Steve Jobs and Larry Ellison both publicly attribute(d) their success in part to psychedelics, so "some feel" is probably understating the case.
- jasonm23 14y ago
  There's a long symbiosis of psychedelics with hackers. Something about information wanting to be free, curiosity, and deep insight...
  - virtualwhys 14y ago
    hmmm, yes, deep insight. I actually gave a hit of LSD to a Zen priest from Japan once. Said it was interesting, hallucinated and so on. However, he was quite clear that psychedelics as a path to awakening is...off the mark. Anyway, monastics are on a permanent trip...just like you and me, even off the mark, we can't help but nail it, life is the biggest bulls eye around ;-)
    - diggum 14y ago
      they can certainly help one see amazing insights or interesting things, but he's correct that they're not particularly good as a tool to awaken/enlightenment. too much distraction.

p3nt3ll3r 14y ago

good luck buddy. pass.

serf 14y ago

so either I smoke weed.. or my body is a cocoon of truths being ripped apart by 'them'? Well I know what i'm choosing.

redwood 14y ago

A lot of the descriptions of Ayahuasca are similar to mushrooms (everything depends on dosage of course!) Truly life-augmenting experiences. As a 10 year pot smoker I stopped rather randomly about 4 months ago. I didn't do it for any reason besides respiratory health, and probably wouldn't have changed if I had a good vaporizer. It's fine not smoking but I drink more and find my mind moving away from the broad thinking pot encouraged. I'll probably find a way to balance it in in some way again in the future. The likes of psychedelics, however, are framing or pivotal events in my life, generally done in the wilderness. My feelings are similar to Steve Jobs... they are incredibly powerful experiences and I yearn to share them with those I'm close with. I imagine I'll be having these experiences throughout my life.

exodust 14y ago
Similar to mushrooms? Maybe the perception change, but as for... "a mixture of foot-rot, raw sewage, battery acid, sulfur and just a hint of chocolate. Within about 45 minutes of drinking it you frequently begin to suffer bouts of severe nausea, vomiting and diarrhea." This is NOT anything like mushrooms unless you've taken the wrong kind.
- akavi 14y ago
  I've consumed heavy doses of ayahuasca on three occasions, and never experienced diarrhea. Nor have my friends or any of the innumerable people who have posted experiences online. You will vomit, however.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
virtualwhys 14y ago
Have you tried not smoking AND not drinking? ;-) Same boat, I smoked a lot of herb growing up (never drawn to drink particularly), but stopped in my 20s for about 6 years. No longer clear, smoke every couple of weeks, and trip a couple times a year, 1/4 of shrooms and off into the woods, goodbye world. foolish pride in you I am broken praise The love in and beyond all things, is there anyone more blind than myself? Sorry, got a bit off track there...back to "reality"

exodust 14y ago

"Perhaps they ARE all 'within the brain' as skeptics say". Right, so it's only "skeptics" who point out the bleeding obvious? I think we can safely say it is most certainly all within the brain. That's what the drug is directly influencing, and as a result your mind goes over the waterfall and you are forced to just go along with it, or suffer if you put up resistance. The problem with long term fans of DMT, cannabis, and all manner of psychedelics is that you end up writing books about it that mean more to you than they could anyone else. There's exceptions (Castaneda), but that's generally how it goes. The thing is, if you need to take Ayahuasca before your own brain tells you that your abuse of pot is out of control, then that points to something far less sophisticated than the exotic make-believe problems of spiritual junkies. It points to the obvious: that you're lazy. It really is that simple. Not to undermine the importance of getting back to basics or nature, and sorting through personal issues, perhaps even under the influence of psychedelics - that can be a very cleansing experience. But you shouldn't need to go to Brazil for that and drink sewerage tasting cocktails of God-knows what and vomit your guts up. That is nothing more than conscientious stupidity (IMHO).

virtualwhys 14y ago
Well, life comes with batteries included, but the desire to hook up the 240 volt is there regardless. Here, brain, inside, outside, no idea what any of that means. It's like saying what is outside of everything, or what is inside of outside. Not one single thing can be explained, but as if by magic Scala 2.10 build times remain slow and another Ruby library gets hacked into. And so it goes...ours is not to reason why
dougk16 14y ago
> I think we can safely say it is most certainly all within the brain. Occam's razor says you're probably right, but personally I'm holding out the slim hope that there's something much cooler going on, call it primitive telepathy or whatever. The next few decades will hopefully tell. > But you shouldn't need to go to Brazil for that and drink sewerage tasting cocktails of God-knows what and vomit your guts up. That is nothing more than conscientious stupidity (IMHO). This is less stupid than popping a pill whose side effects take longer to list than the rest of its commercial. I mean, just look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venlafaxine#Adverse_effects http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venlafaxine#Adverse_effects. That's stupid, and it was a good point made in the post.

clueless123 14y ago

FWIW, A couple of (semi) recent local news (here in Peru) about the practice... http://america.infobae.com/notas/57978-Peru-joven-estadounidense-murio-al-tomar-ayahuasca http://america.infobae.com/notas/57978-Peru-joven-estadounid... http://peru.com/2011/11/28/actualidad/otras-noticias/video-muere-frances-ceremonia-ayahuaca-noticia-31793 http://peru.com/2011/11/28/actualidad/otras-noticias/video-m... I am not saying don't do it.. just be careful with what you do.

contingencies 14y ago

For a broader, frequently updated, shorter-form and better categorized collection of this sort of reading check out http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/forums/40-Trip-Reports http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/forums/40-Trip-Reports

gadders 14y ago

The news that Graham Hancock was a cannabis addict explains a lot, such as his Orion Correlation Theory [1] [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_Hancock#Orion_Correlation_Theory http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_Hancock#Orion_Correlatio...

josscrowcroft 14y ago

Each to their own, and Graham's writing style kind of rubs me the wrong way, but Ayahuasca changed everything for me. Inexpressible gratitude. 'Nuff said.

LatvjuAvs 14y ago

One lives his life loving all things and finding place for everything, connecting everything. One lives life weeding out things he do not like, burning down bridges, building new ones, exterminating problems and severing connections, building new ones when needed. Sadly, only one of them will accept other.

nacker 14y ago

Say what you want about the "Green Bitch", she's never killed anyone, unlike the "White Bitch". http://jacquesmattheij.com/this-white-powder-will-kill-me-one-day http://jacquesmattheij.com/this-white-powder-will-kill-me-on...